(August 17, 2013 at 5:45 pm)LostLocke Wrote:(August 17, 2013 at 5:00 pm)Theo Zacharias Wrote: First, I must point out that there are atheists who belief that God does not exist.Those are two different things.
There also atheists who claim to know that God does not exist.
Belief/disbelief in a god determines if you are an atheist or theist.
Claiming to know if a god does or does not exist determines if you are gnostic or agnostic.
Your first sentence is what an atheist is. IE, if you believe in a god you are not an atheist.
Yes, I agree that the 2 statements I said above are 2 different things. I think you also know that I have never suggested in my post that those 2 are the same things.
My point is that not all atheists is just disbelief (that God exists). There is also atheist who believes (that God does not exist). More than that, there is also atheist who claim to know that God does not exist. All of these people are atheist.
Also if you agree with Plato's definition of knowledge that knowledge is a justified true belief, then to know is also to belief. So if there there's a person claiming to know that God does not exist, by definition, the person should also believe that God does not exist. So claiming to know that God does not exist, other than determine that you are a gnostic, also determine that you are an atheist.
