RE: A small thanks to the resident Theists..
September 11, 2013 at 12:08 am
(This post was last modified: September 11, 2013 at 12:11 am by Mystical.)
(September 9, 2013 at 5:35 pm)Godschild Wrote:(September 8, 2013 at 9:45 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: Hey GC, thanks for stopping by!
THEBIBLE Wrote:Deuteronomy 21:18-21
“If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Tell me something, why do you keep bring up these above ^ verses I've already explained and no one has argued the explanation. Again, I say if you were in church you could not have been listening to teachings and why do I say this, because you do not listen here, all you know how to do is go to atheist sights and copy verses, or say I've not read the scriptures, sad, really sad.
Quote:Leviticus 20:9
For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him.
You apparently have no idea what God was trying to accomplish with His chosen people, until you can come to this understanding you will never understand the OT. Nevertheless I'm going to explain this to you this time only, so if you want to throw out this verses again I'll just ignore you because of your ignorance.
The word curse in Lev. 20:9 is expounded upon in Deut. 21:18-21. The full meaning of the Lev. 20:9 is found in the verses in Deut. So now all you need to do is find the explanation I've given in the past and you'll have it.
Yeah uh, Godschild, I'm not doing that. State your explanation here, as I think you are confused about me even being there when you said it.
As far as I can tell based on common translations reached in a consensus by almost all Christian denominations, the word curse isn't even in Deuteronomy 21:18-21.
Wikipedia Wrote:While traditionally accepted as the genuine words of Moses delivered on the eve of the occupation of Canaan, a broad consensus of modern scholars now see its origins in traditions from Israel (the northern kingdom) brought south to the Kingdom of Judah in the wake of the Assyrian destruction of Samaria (8th century BCE) and then adapted to a program of nationalist reform in the time of King Josiah (late 7th century), with the final form of the modern book emerging in the milieu of the return from the Babylonian exile during the late 6th century
...At the end of the Exile, when the Persians agreed that the Jews could return and rebuild the Temple, chapters 1–4 and 29–30 were added and Deuteronomy was made the introductory book to this history, so that a story about a people about to enter the Promised Land, became a story about a people about to return to the land. The legal sections of chapters 19–25 were expanded to meet new situations that had arisen, and chapters 31–34 were added as a new conclusion.
I just found that interesting.
Godschild Wrote:Quote:2 Kings 2:23-24
He went up from there to Bethel, and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!” And he turned around, and when he saw them, he cursed them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys.
Oh boy, how ridiculous. Just to show you I'll give the effort, I went and looked up the Hebrew for tore and it does not indicate death, nor does any of the other translations of those verses I reviewed. Now that we have that out of the way let's examine the verses, those boys were not only mocking Elisha but, God as well. We know these boys came from Bethel which at the time was the center of pagan idol worship in Israel the Northern Kingdom. These boys were telling Elisha not to come to Bethel and bring God's word because no one there wanted to hear it. So God punished those boys for their mockery and rejection of His prophet and His word.
I too looked up the Hebrew for tore and it indicates to be made into morsels, to be plucked up and torn to pieces.
In any case if you're actually saying what I think you're saying: those boys weren't killed, just mauled so that makes it okay. I'd like to know from where in the text it indicates to you that those children weren't ripped to shreds by two bears
You're okay with this happening to kids in the name of your god then, huh? You don't think any sort of injury to a child in those times wasn't fatal?
godschild Wrote:Quote:Oh, and then there's these.. But I'm sure you just read right over those or who knows.. Maybe you liked it.
THEBIBLE Wrote:
You pick them out two at a time and I'll try and explain each one, if you do not then that's fine. I'm not sitting here and going through all of them and making a ridiculously long post. Besides I do not have that kind of time, it will be much easier to do two at a time.
GC
I don't think you can explain moralistic murder to me but you're sure free to try.
Psalm 137
8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is the one who repays you according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.
58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
58:8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.
(September 9, 2013 at 5:35 pm)Godschild Wrote:(September 8, 2013 at 9:45 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: Hey GC, thanks for stopping by!
THEBIBLE Wrote:Deuteronomy 21:18-21
“If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Tell me something, why do you keep bring up these above ^ verses I've already explained and no one has argued the explanation. Again, I say if you were in church you could not have been listening to teachings and why do I say this, because you do not listen here, all you know how to do is go to atheist sights and copy verses, or say I've not read the scriptures, sad, really sad.
Quote:Leviticus 20:9
For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him.
You apparently have no idea what God was trying to accomplish with His chosen people, until you can come to this understanding you will never understand the OT. Nevertheless I'm going to explain this to you this time only, so if you want to throw out this verses again I'll just ignore you because of your ignorance.
The word curse in Lev. 20:9 is expounded upon in Deut. 21:18-21. The full meaning of the Lev. 20:9 is found in the verses in Deut. So now all you need to do is find the explanation I've given in the past and you'll have it.
Yeah uh, Godschild, [u]I'm not doing that. State your explanation here, as I think you are confused about me even being there when you said it.
As far as I can tell based on common translations reached in a consensus by almost all Christian denominations, the word curse isn't even in Deuteronomy 21:18-21.
Wikipedia Wrote:While traditionally accepted as the genuine words of Moses delivered on the eve of the occupation of Canaan, a broad consensus of modern scholars now see its origins in traditions from Israel (the northern kingdom) brought south to the Kingdom of Judah in the wake of the Assyrian destruction of Samaria (8th century BCE) and then adapted to a program of nationalist reform in the time of King Josiah (late 7th century), with the final form of the modern book emerging in the milieu of the return from the Babylonian exile during the late 6th century
...At the end of the Exile, when the Persians agreed that the Jews could return and rebuild the Temple, chapters 1–4 and 29–30 were added and Deuteronomy was made the introductory book to this history, so that a story about a people about to enter the Promised Land, became a story about a people about to return to the land. The legal sections of chapters 19–25 were expanded to meet new situations that had arisen, and chapters 31–34 were added as a new conclusion.
I just found that interesting.
Godschild Wrote:Quote:2 Kings 2:23-24
He went up from there to Bethel, and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!” And he turned around, and when he saw them, he cursed them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys.
Oh boy, how ridiculous. Just to show you I'll give the effort, I went and looked up the Hebrew for tore and it does not indicate death, nor does any of the other translations of those verses I reviewed. Now that we have that out of the way let's examine the verses, those boys were not only mocking Elisha but, God as well. We know these boys came from Bethel which at the time was the center of pagan idol worship in Israel the Northern Kingdom. These boys were telling Elisha not to come to Bethel and bring God's word because no one there wanted to hear it. So God punished those boys for their mockery and rejection of His prophet and His word.
I too looked up the Hebrew for tore and it indicates to be made into morsels, to be plucked up and torn to pieces.
In any case if you're actually saying what I think you're saying: those boys weren't killed, just mauled so that makes it okay. I'd like to know from where in the text it indicates to you that those children weren't ripped to shreds by two bears
1:05
http://video.nationalgeographic.com/vide...zzly-bear/
You're okay with this happening to kids in the name of your god then, huh? You don't think any sort of injury to a child in those times wasn't fatal?
godschild Wrote:Quote:Oh, and then there's these.. But I'm sure you just read right over those or who knows.. Maybe you liked it.
THEBIBLE Wrote:
You pick them out two at a time and I'll try and explain each one, if you do not then that's fine. I'm not sitting here and going through all of them and making a ridiculously long post. Besides I do not have that kind of time, it will be much easier to do two at a time.
GC
I don't think you can explain moralistic murder to me but you're sure free to try.
Psalm 137
8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is the one who repays you according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.
58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
58:8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away:[u] like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.