Believers don't believe

[Edwardo Piet]

http://www.adherents.com

How exactly do those statistics distinguish between "belief" and belief in belief?

Are you claiming the majority of the world are actually agnostic? The rich do give away their money to charities. How do you think the Christian Churches are worth Billions? Who do you think is donating their money? Are there any atheist organizations that have a bank account in the billions of dollars for charities? People are working frantically to find the right religion. Why do you think so many Muslims are converting to Christianity, and vise-versa? Do you notice the two religions from the Middle East are dominating the Globe?

. Yes I haven't looked into it but I've heard a lot about it. And I can imagine Christians DO give a lot to charity. But that's NOT because they believe in the supernatural. Morality is innate and it has been hijacked by religion. Its NOT in religion and then we steal it off religion. Because its innate in us in the first place. Believing in God doesn't make you more moral.
Furthermore there is a lot of evil that religion DOES do. If you fundamentally believe the OT or the koran for instance. And take it literally and are dogmatic about it. It can cause an otherwise good person to do some very evil things because he thinks its righteous.
And about the 'two religions from the Middle East' dominating the globe. This is true its of course horrific. Its horrific that people go to war over what they "believe" is "God". On the other hand can you imagine anybody going to war because UNbelief in God? Can you imagine 9/11, the crusades, the inquisition, etc, happening because of an UNbelief?

Untrue. God said believe in me, and preach my word. It says nothing about donating every waking hour to him.

Yes but the bible and the koran say a LOT of things don't they? A lot of horrific stuff, not just 'good stuff'. So you pick and choose. And yoy use your innate morality to do so. And you certainly don't need to believe in God to pick and choose what God says. Its got nothing to do with "God".

Everyone believes their own religion is the truth.

Errr, how on earth can you know this? There are of course fakers. And there are people who mistake fake belief for belief. Who simply follow Pascal's Wager. And there are of course people who simply 'believe in belief in God' how couldn't there be? And how can you make such a claim that "everyone believes their own religion is the truth"?

Who cares, if it makes a person feel good by saying prayers and the dinner table and before they goto sleep, then so be it. That doesn't mean that person in insane, or delusional! It means that person has found happiness. What do you consider reality? 90% of the world believe in God, so that means they are insane? Is that what you meant by reality?

Finding happiness through delusion does not mean its not a delusion. Consolation is not proof of God. Popularity if not proof of God. And once again, if it makes you happy that doesn't mean its not delusional. It doesn't mean its true.

I believe in God because I know life-form didn't generate itself intoa living cell on it's own. that's my reason for believing in God. If you disagree with the God I have chosen to believe is the creator of life, then I'm sorry you feel that way.

You don't know. Life did evolve. I don't know what you think that means, or how you understand evolution. But it did evolve.
And if you feel sorry if we disagree with your God. Then I'm sorry that you persist in your delusion.

I don't live day by day believing every choice I make is being controlled. I make my own decisions. If it's right, then awesome! If it's wrong, then so be it. God knows I'm a sinner, but he also knows I was saved in the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ.

You claim to know the mind of God. How could you know this? Its absurd. How on earth do you know that God knows you are a sinner and he also knows you were saved? How could you know that? Because it says it in the bible? And the bible is the word of God? Well how on earth do you know its the word of God? How is the bible evidence of the truth of its own claims? It isn't, thats how. How do you know you couldn't just invent your own God, and that that wouldn't be just as likely? So how on earth do you know what God thinks? If you can't know that the bible is the word of God in the first place? Were you brought up to believe? Were you taught to believe?

This was a debate between Richard Dawkins and Bill O'Reilly. O'Reilly told him, "Who cares if I'm happy with my decision, why are so against that?"

Well if he keeps it to himself thats fine. But if he actually doesn't want to be delusional, and actually cares about the truth (it seems as if he doesn't because he basically says "who cares as long as I'm happy?", so he doesn't care if its not true if it makes him happy). But he certainly shouldn't influence anyone else with his delusional bullshit. And there's no reason why it should make him happy apart from the fact he believes it does. That he believes such bullshit is positive. I somehow don't think that the God of the bible is exactly someone or something to respected! I'll tell you what, its the truth that makes me happy. Wasn't Jesus supposed to have said: "The truth will set you free". Well if he did, Its quite ironic really that the whole God thing is bullshit. Yes the truth will set you free. So, as humans lets quit with this delusional supernatural bullshit IF we can, huh? Us humans don't need this bullshit.

Maybe it's the atheists that are delusional? Life did not arise from non-life. Something was there to kick-start life into motion. The creation of life was a not a magic trick.

I don't see how absence of a belief in what there is no evidence of and what is extremely improbable, is a delusion? I don't see how absence of delusion is a delusion? So how are atheists delusional exactly?
And by the way. Don't you know? We as humans are made from a lot of non-living things. Don't you believe in atoms? If you don't. Does that mean you don't believe in nuclear bombs? In atom bombs? While we're at it. Do you believe in gravity?

If the Christians are right, then the world is doomed.

Wow those Christians sure sound nice. What a lovely thing to believe in. Why believe in the apocalypse for example if its just about consolation and freedom to believe? Such a thing is of course a truth claim. And its a false truth. Its both a false and delusional AND harmful belief. If Christians are right, then the world is doomed. Jesus f**king Christ. Lets hope they're not. But I don't need to hope. Because they just aren't are they? not only is God extremely improbable but for one particular God to be right. For one particular religion to have got his mind right. When they can't know. That's pretty much impossible.
And of course the world is doomed even if the Christians are wrong. In the end the earth will be no more. It won't last forever. So if humans want to survive they're going to have to live on another planet. So far we haven't found a livable one.

See last post, but insert [Islam]

Good thing that its pretty much impossible for them to be right too.

And what are the odds of atheists being right?

For the moment. Pretty much zero. Because there's no evidence to the contrary. And God is extremely improbable. This is exactly what a universe would look like if there were no supernatural. There's no miracles, no signs of the supernatural whatsoever. God could be deist. But like I said there's no evidence and he/she/it is extremely improbable anyway. There's the infinite regress for a start.
Besides, the burden of proof is on the believer. Its the believer who is postulating the absurd. It is the believer making the claims and/or proclaims about the universe. With no evidence to support them whatsoever. The burden of proof is on them.

I don't care what Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and Jews think of me. Jesus said, "Love your neighbors and your enemies." If that is a delusion, then I'm sticking with it. No harm, No foul.

The thing is though. You pick and choose. So how can you believe in God's word if you pick and choose God's word?

So, bloodshed makes someone a believer more than another religion? How were the Hijackers of 9-11 more believers in Allah than I am in Yahweh? Because I chose not to fly an airplane 650 MPH into a building? You failed to mention how believers in Christ have been executed throughout the last 20 centuries! I guess these men were TRUE believers, right? These Christians were executed just for believing Jesus Christ existed. These Disciples went all the way to their execution chamber swearing by God that this man named Jesus did exist, and he did perform miracles!! But these Disciples were laughed at, and then executed.

But the point is that being a "true believer" isn't about being a good person. No. Its about actually believing and taking the holy books completely literally and believing every word. And this is what fundamentalist terrorist believers believe right? These people are not mistaken. They don't necessarily claim to do things "in Gods name" they very often do what God actually tells them to do in their holy book.

The Qu'ran commanded Muslims to murder their enemies of war. The Holy Bible says, "Love your enemies, and preach the word to the Infidels." And "If they do not hear your words, then shake the dust from your feet and walk away from them."

the bible is full of horror too. Does it not say In the OT that if your child talks back to you, you should stone them to death? For example. There are huge amounts of horrors in the OT. And Jesus said he didn't come to change ANY of the OT. But to promote it. And Jesus after all, was a Jew.

Islam - Murder in the name of Allah and you are granted eternal life with 72 Virgins (or grapes) whichever version you read.

Christianity, "Love your neighbors as you love yourself."

Where does delusional fit in between good and bad?

Well the first is delusional because its a truth claim thats not true. The second isn't a delusion because its not even claiming anything. Its a matter of opinion. And obviously ts more positive and not evil. But there is a lot of evil in the bible too. Its not like the bible is perfect. You pick and choose parts from the bible. As the less fundamentalist Muslims do. They pick and choose from the koran. Rather than believing the whole thing.
To act as if the bible is perfect would be bullshit. Its not got one line in it that couldn't be written by a man who lived when it was written. There is no evidence of divine guidance of any kind. And the bible is full of immorality and ignorance. And these aren't aren't always mutually exclusive. The bible isn't exactly great. And certainly not as great as a lot of you Christians and Jews make it out to be.
I'd just say its important to our culture, tradition, language. And history.
EDIT: Ok Psalm. So you say that you accept the bible is full of a lot of filth because it was so long ago when it was written. So my question is this: If the bible is the word of God. How can you know what God wants and what doesn't? How can you know God's mind? How can you even know that God is the Christian God? What is your excuse for cherry-picking?
And anyway, belief is not a matter of policy. So when you cherry pick how do you make yourself NOT believe in certain things and TO believe in other things?
Furthermore. Do you ever reject horrific things in the bible that you actually believe in. Because they're horrific? Or do you not believe in the bible anyway and you just pick the good stuff and think faith belief=belief? If you sincerely believe in only the good things that God says in the bible. And believe that all the bad things in the bible were misattributed to God by the writers. Then lucky you. But that still makes it delusional bullshit whether its moral or immoral.