Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: October 31, 2024, 7:47 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Believers don't believe
#11
RE: Believers don't believe
(December 4, 2008 at 1:01 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote:
Psalm 23 Wrote:http://www.adherents.com
How exactly do those statistics distinguish between "belief" and belief in belief?
They don't, but it shows you the world's leading religions.

Quote:Yes I haven't looked into it but I've heard a lot about it. And I can imagine Christians DO give a lot to charity. But that's NOT because they believe in the supernatural.
Christians donate money and food because Jesus said give to those in need. And your reward in Heaven will be ten fold.

Quote:Morality is innate and it has been hijacked by religion. Its NOT in religion and then we steal it off religion. Because its innate in us in the first place. Believing in God doesn't make you more moral.
I believe the 10 Commandments were the moral decency laws that mankind is supposed to live by. If you stop and think about it. Every single one of those commandments are THE hardest to abide by. Even in modern times..

Quote:Furthermore there is a lot of evil that religion DOES do. If you fundamentally believe the OT or the koran for instance. And take it literally and are dogmatic about it. It can cause an otherwise good person to do some very evil things because he thinks its righteous.
Neither the Qu'ran or the Holy Bible condone killing innocent women and children. In a time of warfare, yes, it was acceptable to kill to protect your Land or Family... God did give the Jews the command to take over land occupied by pagans because Jehovah knew they were sacrificing their children in the name of their gods.

Quote:And about the 'two religions from the Middle East' dominating the globe. This is true its of course horrific. Its horrific that people go to war over what they "believe" is "God". On the other hand can you imagine anybody going to war because UNbelief in God? Can you imagine 9/11, the crusades, the inquisition, etc, happening because of an UNbelief?
I agree with you 100%!! There have been many atrocities over religious battles. I cannot speak for my ancient Christian brothers. There must have been a reason why they did what they did. Because the Jesus I know didn't command his Disciples to murder people.

Quote:Yes but the bible and the koran say a LOT of things don't they? A lot of horrific stuff, not just 'good stuff'. So you pick and choose. And yoy use your innate morality to do so. And you certainly don't need to believe in God to pick and choose what God says. Its got nothing to do with "God".
I don't pick and choose, but I also know it's not my place to judge what my ancient fellow brothers did 3,000 years ago. I cannot speak for an event that took place 30 centuries ago. I'm not God.

Quote:Finding happiness through delusion does not mean its not a delusion. Consolation is not proof of God. Popularity if not proof of God. And once again, if it makes you happy that doesn't mean its not delusional. It doesn't mean its true.
Mental patients that are delusional and insane are detected by medical examiners. Delusional patterns can be detected by science. So far, no signs of God being a mental disorder. Well, unless you read a book authored by a Biologist. Rolleyes

Quote:You don't know. Life did evolve. I don't know what you think that means, or how you understand evolution. But it did evolve. And if you feel sorry if we disagree with your God. Then I'm sorry that you persist in your delusion.
Evolution does not say anything about the origin of life. That is Abiogenesis.

Quote:You claim to know the mind of God. How could you know this? Its absurd. How on earth do you know that God knows you are a sinner and he also knows you were saved?
Well, because the bible says God is Omniscient. Meaning, 'He knows everything."

Quote:How could you know that? Because it says it in the bible? And the bible is the word of God? Well how on earth do you know its the word of God?
Because these ancient men claimed to receive visions from God. And they wrote down that God told them, 'All who believe in him are saved and will share everlasting paradise with the creator." Geez, sounds simple enough..Sounds like a pretty cool story, too. I think it's awesome these men were chosed to witness God so they can share it with the rest of the world.

Quote:How is the bible evidence of the truth of its own claims? It isn't, thats how. How do you know you couldn't just invent your own God, and that that wouldn't be just as likely? So how on earth do you know what God thinks?
I get this gut feeling sometimes.. I can know what God is thinking.

Quote:If you can't know that the bible is the word of God in the first place? Were you brought up to believe? Were you taught to believe?
I know the bible is the word of God. There have been just too many prophecies that have been fulfilled. I was brought up to believe in nothing. I was not raised in a Christian family. We were anything but a Christian family. I recently found God on my own around 4 years ago.

Believe me, I used to have the same exact questions you do, but I found the answers..

Quote:Well if he keeps it to himself thats fine.
But it's ok for Christians to donate food and money? When should Christians keep their faith to themself? Only when people don't need them?

Quote:But if he actually doesn't want to be delusional, and actually cares about the truth (it seems as if he doesn't because he basically says "who cares as long as I'm happy?", so he doesn't care if its not true if it makes him happy).
Yes, Bill O'Reilly pretty much told Dawkins, "Listen, Catholicism makes me a happier person, and I donate my time and money to the Church.. so if it makes me happy and I'm helping others, why in the Hell are you so concerned about that?"

Quote:But he certainly shouldn't influence anyone else with his delusional bullshit.
I'm sure he raised a few atheist eyebrows. He slapped Dawkins with the ultimate, "You cannot prove Jesus Christ wasn't God."

Quote:And there's no reason why it should make him happy apart from the fact he believes it does. That he believes such bullshit is positive.
Apparently he knows something you don't.

Quote:I somehow don't think that the God of the bible is exactly someone or something to respected!
You don't have to respect him if you don't want to. Nobody is forcing you to worship Jehovah or else! This isn't the year 600 B.C.

Quote:I'll tell you what, its the truth that makes me happy. Wasn't Jesus supposed to have said: "The truth will set you free". Well if he did, Its quite ironic really that the whole God thing is bullshit.
Yes, the Truth will set you free, (from eternal damnation) Jesus was saying "live your life while you can, because on judgement day, it's all over for you."

Quote:Yes the truth will set you free. So, as humans lets quit with this delusional supernatural bullshit IF we can, huh? Tongue Us humans don't need this bullshit.
Roughly 90% of the world believe in God, and that stat is from 2005. For some reason, I don't see human civilization giving up hope in God any time soon.

Quote:I don't see how absence of a belief in what there is no evidence of and what is extremely improbable, is a delusion? I don't see how absence of delusion is a delusion? So how are atheists delusional exactly?
Claiming something is not there when it could possibly well be there is a delusion. That is called, living in a world of denial, and nowhere near reality.

Quote: And by the way. Don't you know? We as humans are made from a lot of non-living things. Don't you believe in atoms? If you don't. Does that mean you don't believe in nuclear bombs? In atom bombs? While we're at it. Do you believe in gravity?
Gee, Do I believe in atoms? Why of course I do. Have you read the bible lately? It says, "God prepared the worlds with things that cannot be seen." What created the universe? Invisible atoms?

Science laughed and scoffed at the bible verse. They claimed, "How could invisible materials create the Universe??" lol. Who's laughing now?

Quote:Wow those Christians sure sound nice. What a lovely thing to believe in. Why believe in the apocalypse for example if its just about consolation and freedom to believe?
The end times rapture will be a glorious event for believers.

Quote:Such a thing is of course a truth claim. And its a false truth. Its both a false and delusional AND harmful belief.
The end times will be a joyous event! Hardly a harmful belief.

Quote:If Christians are right, then the world is doomed. Jesus f**king Christ. Lets hope they're not.
I don't think even Dawkins would stoop as low as to use the Lord's name in vain. Atheists lose so much credibility in debate sessions when they do that.

Quote:But I don't need to hope. Because they just aren't are they? not only is God extremely improbable but for one particular God to be right.
He is the only God. I'm not aware of other gods? Unless you're talking about people like Thor, Zeus, Odin.. those were men claiming god-like divinity. They were not gods.. they were mortal men that lived and died, and never seen again. And now these religions are nothing but mythological stories. Jehovah is the only one true supernatural God that is an eternal force that was never created, and will never die. All of these ancient gods of the past have died and gone... finished!! but Lord Jehovah's name still stand on the top of the world nearly 4,000 years later!

Quote:For one particular religion to have got his mind right. When they can't know. That's pretty much impossible.
There is only one God. Believe in the one God that promises he shall never die, and human kind shall face him one day. He made the promise.. why would you risk your afterlife to be excruciating torment and misery for eternity?

Quote:And of course the world is doomed even if the Christians are wrong. In the end the earth will be no more. It won't last forever. So if humans want to survive they're going to have to live on another planet. So far we haven't found a livable one.
There are no livable planets other than Earth. Scientists believe they have found life on other planets, and you get these idiot U.F.O fanatics that believe they are talking about aliens. lol. Big Grin

Quote:For the moment. Pretty much zero. Because there's no evidence to the contrary. And God is extremely improbable.
Where did you come to that conclusion? Do you know how absurd that makes you look?

Quote:This is exactly what a universe would look like if there were no supernatural. There's no miracles, no signs of the supernatural whatsoever.
And you know this.. how? What scientist blessed you with such vast knowledge about our Universe?

Quote:God could be deist. But like I said there's no evidence and he/she/it is extremely improbable anyway.
Sorry, but the universe being created from nothing is highly improbable.

Quote:Besides, the burden of proof is on the believer. Its the believer who is postulating the absurd. It is the believer making the claims and/or proclaims about the universe. With no evidence to support them whatsoever. The burden of proof is on them.
It's been proven. Just open your eyes..

Quote:But the point is that being a "true believer" isn't about being a good person. No. Its about actually believing and taking the holy books completely literally and believing every word. And this is what fundamentalist terrorist believers believe right?
No, it's not about taking the bible literally, it's called, "people cannot translate ancient writing with modern english." For instance, I had an atheist tell me, "Jesus said we MUST HATE our parents in order to be his Disciple!" I cannot begin to explain how absurd that looks! Jesus used the word, "Sin'ah" in that verse, and Sin'ah means, "To Love lesser than." All Jesus was saying is, "we are to place God before anyone."

Quote:These people are not mistaken. They don't necessarily claim to do things "in Gods name" they very often do what God actually tells them to do in their holy book.
I haven't. Gee, maybe I'm not a true Disciple?

Quote:the bible is full of horror too. Does it not say In the OT that if your child talks back to you, you should stone them to death?
If you lived in ancient Israel, you would have followed the same laws. Don't play that card with me, it won't work. Of course human civilization has changed in the last 4,000 years. lol. Why are you comparing Apples to Oranges?

Quote:For example. There are huge amounts of horrors in the OT. And Jesus said he didn't come to change ANY of the OT. But to promote it. And Jesus after all, was a Jew.
Actually, Yes he did. When it came to war and fighting, and unjustified killings. Jesus told his people, "You have heard it in the past that you are to hate your enemies, but verily I say unto you, Love your enemies, and pray for those who curse you."

Quote:You pick and choose parts from the bible. As the less fundamentalist Muslims do. They pick and choose from the koran. Rather than believing the whole thing.
I believe every single entire word of the bible, but I also believe it was written for ancient man, and they were commanded by God to do whatever it takes to protect their land.

Quote:To act as if the bible is perfect would be bullshit. Its not got one line in it that couldn't be written by a man who lived when it was written. There is no evidence of divine guidance of any kind. And the bible is full of immorality and ignorance. And these aren't aren't always mutually exclusive. The bible isn't exactly great. And certainly not as great as a lot of you Christians and Jews make it out to be.
The Holy Bible has over 330 fulfilled prophecies to date. That is outstanding! No wonder it's the number one selling book in the history of mankind.

Quote:So you say that you accept the bible is full of a lot of filth because it was so long ago when it was written. So my question is this: If the bible is the word of God. How can you know what God wants and what doesn't? How can you know God's mind? How can you even know that God is the Christian God? What is your excuse for cherry-picking?
Define 'Cherry Picking.' Because I show verses in the bible that express Love and Compassion? And you believe that is considered "cherry picking?" What about you? I'm sure atheists are not guilty of doing that!! No way!!! Rolleyes

Quote:Furthermore. Do you ever reject horrific things in the bible that you actually believe in. Because they're horrific? Or do you not believe in the bible anyway and you just pick the good stuff and think faith belief=belief?
I believe everything written in the bible has a purpose. Ancient man was describing their culture. Who are YOU to judge them? They lived thousands and thousands of years ago... why are you so affected by this?

Quote:If you sincerely believe in only the good things that God says in the bible. And believe that all the bad things in the bible were misattributed to God by the writers.
I believe God commited mass-genocide in the O.T. I'm not ashamed of that. He warned people over and over, and they didn't listen.. so he took care of business, as usual.

Quote:But that still makes it delusional bullshit whether its moral or immoral.
I cannot count how many times you called me "delusional" in this post.. But I gotta warn you, flattery won't work. Tongue
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Believers don't believe - by Dotard - December 4, 2008 at 8:56 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Ace Otana - December 6, 2008 at 2:43 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Edwardo Piet - December 6, 2008 at 3:22 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Edwardo Piet - December 6, 2008 at 9:27 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Psalm 23 - December 7, 2008 at 7:55 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Edwardo Piet - December 7, 2008 at 10:56 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Psalm 23 - December 7, 2008 at 4:52 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by lukec - December 7, 2008 at 4:58 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by bozo - December 7, 2008 at 5:01 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Psalm 23 - December 7, 2008 at 5:10 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by bozo - December 7, 2008 at 5:33 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Purple Rabbit - December 7, 2008 at 12:03 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Ace Otana - December 7, 2008 at 8:16 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Ace Otana - December 7, 2008 at 8:22 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Darwinian - December 7, 2008 at 8:35 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Ace Otana - December 7, 2008 at 8:39 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Tiberius - December 7, 2008 at 8:42 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Ace Otana - December 7, 2008 at 12:02 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Psalm 23 - December 7, 2008 at 4:45 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by lukec - December 7, 2008 at 4:48 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by lukec - December 7, 2008 at 5:13 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Psalm 23 - December 7, 2008 at 5:25 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Purple Rabbit - December 8, 2008 at 5:19 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by lukec - December 7, 2008 at 5:31 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Ace Otana - December 7, 2008 at 7:30 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Psalm 23 - December 11, 2008 at 10:28 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Edwardo Piet - December 11, 2008 at 10:40 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Kyuuketsuki - December 11, 2008 at 10:46 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Purple Rabbit - December 12, 2008 at 3:23 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by leo-rcc - December 7, 2008 at 7:44 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Ace Otana - December 8, 2008 at 6:31 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by FutureAndAHope - December 8, 2008 at 11:49 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Purple Rabbit - December 9, 2008 at 3:24 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Edwardo Piet - December 9, 2008 at 1:40 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Edwardo Piet - December 9, 2008 at 8:58 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Purple Rabbit - December 10, 2008 at 2:23 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Baird - December 11, 2008 at 10:38 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by lukec - December 12, 2008 at 12:29 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Dotard - December 14, 2008 at 12:03 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Edwardo Piet - December 14, 2008 at 12:08 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Dotard - December 14, 2008 at 12:14 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Edwardo Piet - December 14, 2008 at 12:37 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Purple Rabbit - December 14, 2008 at 2:21 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Edwardo Piet - December 14, 2008 at 9:49 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Tiberius - December 4, 2008 at 10:31 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Edwardo Piet - December 4, 2008 at 10:45 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Psalm 23 - December 4, 2008 at 11:32 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by leo-rcc - December 4, 2008 at 11:50 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Ace Otana - December 4, 2008 at 12:43 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by LukeMC - December 4, 2008 at 12:47 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Psalm 23 - December 4, 2008 at 12:48 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Edwardo Piet - December 4, 2008 at 1:01 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Dotard - December 4, 2008 at 10:57 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Psalm 23 - December 4, 2008 at 11:34 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Dotard - December 5, 2008 at 10:14 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by Daystar - December 5, 2008 at 11:05 am
RE: Believers don't believe - by LukeMC - December 5, 2008 at 12:00 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Ace Otana - December 5, 2008 at 12:56 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by lukec - December 5, 2008 at 2:15 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Dotard - December 5, 2008 at 11:06 pm
RE: Believers don't believe - by Psalm 23 - December 6, 2008 at 12:06 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Questions about the European renaissance and religion to non believers Quill01 6 867 January 31, 2021 at 7:16 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  If there is a God(s) it/they clearly don't want us to believe in them, no? Duty 12 1724 April 5, 2020 at 8:36 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
Information How to discuss religion with believers? Scientia 161 20788 February 20, 2019 at 1:54 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Why do some believers claim that all religions are just as good? Der/die AtheistIn 22 4405 June 25, 2018 at 12:10 pm
Last Post: Succubus
  This Will Cause Believers To Lose Their Shit Minimalist 36 9446 March 30, 2018 at 11:14 am
Last Post: sdelsolray
  Why are believers still afraid of death? Der/die AtheistIn 49 5953 March 8, 2018 at 4:57 pm
Last Post: WinterHold
  Why do some moderates get so attached to other believers? Der/die AtheistIn 4 1405 December 19, 2017 at 9:28 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  A Thought Experiment for Believers and Atheists Alike chimp3 39 9994 October 11, 2017 at 3:25 am
Last Post: Ivan Denisovich
  Look i don't really care if you believe or don't believe Ronia 20 8565 August 25, 2017 at 4:28 am
Last Post: ignoramus
  what believers accept without thinking Akat4891 17 6816 June 14, 2017 at 5:28 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)