Believers don't believe

[Edwardo Piet]

http://www.adherents.com

How exactly do those statistics distinguish between "belief" and belief in belief?

They don't, but it shows you the world's leading religions.

Have I misunderstood, or isn't the whole point of this topic that believers, at least, don't always believe what they claim to believe?

Christians donate money and food because Jesus said give to those in need. And your reward in Heaven will be ten fold.

But there's a lot of horrible stuff in the bible too. So the Christians cherry-pick the good parts from the bible. Yes of course, you could say, for instance, "the core part of the bible is the goodness of Jesus" but by what criteria do we pick this out? With a natural empathy thats outside the bible itself. You don't use the book to interpret the book the first time you've seen it or heard of it do you? So you don't whatsoever have to be a Christian or any other kind of theist in order to do moral and ethical things like give to charity. And if you were to simply add up all the numbers of how much actual money is given to charity by everyone in the world. That of course would not be a fair comparison because atheism is in the minority at least and especially compared to the abahamic religions, which includes Christianity of course.

I believe the 10 Commandments were the moral decency laws that mankind is supposed to live by. If you stop and think about it. Every single one of those commandments are THE hardest to abide by. Even in modern times..

That's simply not true. They're not perfect morals at all. Look at the 2nd commandment for instance, is no graven images really so important as to be in the ten commandments of a being of superintelligence? You can believe it if you will. But how?

Neither the Qu'ran or the Holy Bible condone killing innocent women and children. In a time of warfare, yes, it was acceptable to kill to protect your Land or Family... God did give the Jews the command to take over land occupied by pagans because Jehovah knew they were sacrificing their children in the name of their gods.

What about the stoning to death of children if they talk back to you thats in the OT? And stoning adulterers? And stoning homosexuals, for instance. And doesn't it also say in the Koran to basically kill disbelievers?

I agree with you 100%!! There have been many atrocities over religious battles. I cannot speak for my ancient Christian brothers. There must have been a reason why they did what they did. Because the Jesus I know didn't command his Disciples to murder people.

Ok so you agree with me 100%? And yet you didn't answer my question. So do you agree that these things can't be done in the name of unbelief in God (atheism) but can however be done in the name of "God" and because of religion? Since atheism is not a belief system, its just a lack of belief in God. Or do you agree with the atrocities but you don't think they can be done because of religion? I certainly agree with Volitare when he said: 'Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.'
The fact that we have these absurdities in these 'holy' books and that so many people believe in them. This can lead to atrocities. That's what I think.

I don't pick and choose, but I also know it's not my place to judge what my ancient fellow brothers did 3,000 years ago. I cannot speak for an event that took place 30 centuries ago. I'm not God.

Yes but that's not the point. The point is there are lots of literally horrific explicit propositions that you choose to reject, are there not? So by what criteria do you pick and choose from propositions in a 'holy' book? Your innate natural goodness. And yes you're not God. But there's no evidence that there's a God at all.

Mental patients that are delusional and insane are detected by medical examiners. Delusional patterns can be detected by science. So far, no signs of God being a mental disorder. Well, unless you read a book authored by a Biologist.

But ultimately thats not the definition of delusion now is it? And not what I necessarily mean. What I certainly do mean is belief in the absurd. Belief in things without any evidence in its truth whatsoever. Belief merely for the sake of belief. That's what I mean by delusion. You can be otherwise completely sane, but believe strongly in highly delusional nonsense.

Evolution does not say anything about the origin of life. That is Abiogenesis.

Correct.

because the bible says God is Omniscient. Meaning, 'He knows everything."

And that's a good reason to believe you know God's mind? because you read it in a book that claimed to know his mind? Hell I could write one myself. You wouldn't believe that would you? So surely its a bit more complicated than that Or is it? Alternatively is it just your upbringing and your blind faith is preventing you from seeing otherwise. Or, I dare say,"seeing the light"?

Because these ancient men claimed to receive visions from God. And they wrote down that God told them, 'All who believe in him are saved and will share everlasting paradise with the creator." Geez, sounds simple enough..Sounds like a pretty cool story, too. I think it's awesome these men were chosed to witness God so they can share it with the rest of the world.

Ok so ancient men claimed things. Wow! how compelling. Now I can see why you believe them. You assume they're true because some people wrote them thousands of years ago? Now if that's not weak evidence I don't know what is. Why believe THAT?

I get this gut feeling sometimes.. I can know what God is thinking.

How utterly, breathtakingly absurd. You actually think you're own thoughts correspond to the thoughts of the creator of the universe somehow? How could you get a more absurd and weaker argument than that? That's such a delusion its mind boggling if you actually DO really believe that. Do you really believe that? Come on you're joking, surely. How thoroughly arrogant and unpleasant that is. You can know what God is thinking. F**king hell! Seriously?

I know the bible is the word of God. There have been just too many prophecies that have been fulfilled. I was brought up to believe in nothing. I was not raised in a Christian family. We were anything but a Christian family. I recently found God on my own around 4 years ago.

Believe me, I used to have the same exact questions you do, but I found the answers..

You found the answers? So no more learning from now on huh? You know the answers. Minds out. Could anything change your mind? Since you proclaim that many prophecies have been fulfilled when there's no evidence that ANY have. And you arrogantly claim that at times you can know the mind of God. Seriously? Sorry but. I doubt you asked the same questions as me or understood them as much. After all you appear to have misunderstood my questions several times already. I talk about the burden of proof and you don't appear to actually know what it means or understand it for example. Oh and inform me on the evidence of how anyone can REALLY know for sure what God is thinking? Cos I've never heard of any and its so blatantly bullshit. So inform me on this

Yes, Bill O'Reilly pretty much told Dawkins, "Listen, Catholicism makes me a happier person, and I donate my time and money to the Church.. so if it makes me happy and I'm helping others, why in the Hell are you so concerned about that?"

So why are you defending him then? Are you justifiying his delusion so long as it makes him happy? It doesn't matter if he's wrong if it makes him happy? Do you believe the same for you then? Or is this a double-standard? And don't you realize that delusional beliefs are not a good thing despite whether they give you consolation or not. Especially if you don't need to actually believe those specific things to get consolation and that belief is not simply a matter of policy. Fake belief does not=belief.

I'm sure he raised a few atheist eyebrows. He slapped Dawkins with the ultimate, "You cannot prove Jesus Christ wasn't God."

You STILL don't understand the burden of proof. Ok well you cannot disprove Zeus. Does that give any evidence to the fact that Zeus might be more likely to exist now that I have said that? Or that its 50/50? Or does it mean I am making a claim based on absolutely nothing. Zero evidence. And that Zeus obviously is extremely unlikely to exist to say the least. And I mean exactly the actual mythical Zeus that the ancient Greeks believe in. You can't disprove that. You can't disprove "x God" is an extremely weak argument. I could conceive of any God I wanted. Make the whole thing up. And you couldn't disprove THAT either. That argument with nothing to back it up, is extremely weak and not really an argument at all.

Apparently he knows something you don't.

Sorry but do you know what logic IS? How on earth does the fact he believes in comforting things mean that those beliefs are actually true? Have you EVER even heard of the placebo effect?

You don't have to respect him if you don't want to. Nobody is forcing you to worship Jehovah or else! This isn't the year 600 B.C.

I know this. But why do you respect him/her/it?