(November 7, 2013 at 9:47 am)Zazzy Wrote: Since I'm one of the ones you bolded, I'd like to point out that the majority of my post dealt with issues in which men ARE treated unfairly in ways that hurt society as a whole.
Technically yes if we are talking in terms of how many words you used. But you listed two issues men face and then continued to say that the rest we should just keep quiet about. And I'm not trying to say that you should be aware of all of men's issues, but be mindful that we have more than just two.
(November 7, 2013 at 9:47 am)Zazzy Wrote: I'll add another issue here that someone else touched on earlier: rape. Rape of men (by men or women) is treated as a joke, which is shameful and reflects harmful stereotypes.
Yes, the usual view is that if it was done by a women there is no way it could have been rape because we are supposed to enjoy it. And if done by a man it is thought that we didn't fight hard enough to stop it.
(November 7, 2013 at 9:47 am)Zazzy Wrote: Men have problems, and AS I SAID, some of those problems are a result of societal bias. In the entire fabric of human society, however, it's just ridiculous to claim that men are oppressed as a group. There are areas of bias, but it doesn't really compare to the institutional, systematic, centuries-old oppression of anyone with a vagina.
Luckily, we don't have to compare the two to be outraged at cultural misogyny or to be outraged at the treatment of male rape victims. Both are bad things.
We are an oppressed group though. Again we are so oppressed that we don't have the option most of the time to say we are without facing ridicule. When the chips were laid out and gender roles assigned centuries ago, men didn't just give women all the bad chips and kept the good ones for themselves. We took a good amount of bad chips ourselves.
Since the beginning of human civilization who have all of your soldiers been? Men.
The draft which the U.S. still has in place conscripts only one gender. Men.
Who first? Women and children first.
Who gets trapped in mine shafts and work in higher risk jobs. Men.
Compared to the lives of women, our lives are considered lesser.
Even as progress for women has been made (which I'm all for) progress for men has remained stagnant. Women can now work in what would be considered traditionally male careers. But how many men do you see working in early childcare, or become stay at home dads while the woman works? Not too many, because although women have been supported to venture into those non-traditional careers, men are still being shunned to do the same.
(November 7, 2013 at 9:47 am)Zazzy Wrote: I'm not sure what rights you are speaking of. If you're fighting for the right to have better birth control for men, you will find no advocates more passionate than feminists. What right is it that you think men are fighting for that cause people to call them woman-haters?
To be fair, I am sure that while a lot of these men's rights activists are looking for fairness on a few rights, what they are primarily looking for is a change in cultural attitude.
But the right that men are really fighting for is just the right to say how we feel. Like I said, we can't even say that we feel oppressed without it becoming a debate, when pretty much any other group that makes the same claim gets open arms immediately.
Personally, I think the main reason for this is because we used to be the oppressors. But we are not anymore and have not for a few generations, save for a few assholes. And there is this idea that it is impossible for the previous oppressor to become the oppressed.
(November 7, 2013 at 4:10 pm)Bipolar Bob Wrote: In regards to men being treated unfairly and not given equal advocacy regarding custody of children, I do see a very serious problem here. But is this particular problem the fault of women? The MRM would have you think so, according to them it is women manipulating the system that created the problem. But the tradition of giving women custody of the children is far older than modern feminism. Women are routinely granted preference in custodial issues due to an ingrained belief that women belong in the kitchen, raising the kids and that daddy's sole purpose is to pay the bills. These are the traditional roles of men and women. Who created these roles, who enforces these rules? A sexist male dominated patriarchal society! So the MRM has no business of scapegoating women when it comes to custodial issues...the blame rest solely on the values of a patriarchal society. Men if you have issues with women being afforded preference in custody blame the patriarchy not women.
Two sides to the same coin bud. You may see it that way, but the way I see it the court system looks down on men raising children. This particular problem is dual sided, and gender roles affect us both on this one. It's not just traditionally seen that women are supposed to raise kids, but also that men can't.
