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Terrible Atheist Argument #1
#99
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1
You're confusing epistemological solipsism with metaphysical solipsism. If metaphysical solipsism is true, you are the only mind that exists, while the epistemic version is about doubting that you can ascertain the truth of whether or not other minds exist. Hence, if metaphysical solipsism is true then I'm not sure postulating possible worlds where there are other minds or p-zombies really helps, because then isn't it by definition necessarily the case? Or at best, you could slide to the epistemological version, which means the question of whether or not possible metaphysical truths are necessarily true becomes a non sequitur.


Regardless, I guess I could parse metaphysical truths into 2 camps: necessary metaphysical truths (NMTs) and unnecessary metaphysical truths (UMTs). The former refers to possibly necessary metaphysical truths that, if coherent, have to be true, while the latter refers to metaphysical truths that only happen to be true, but didn't have to be. Thus, my argument would seem to hold, since metaphysical naturalism is self-evidently a NMT (as is God), which would rule out God if you accept modal ontological arguments as valid operating methods.



But really, the above is all problematic. From what I understand, Immanuel Kant essentially destroyed metaphysics - or certainly dealt it a near KO - so even trying to make metaphysical arguments like Plantinga's MOA (and my own) are non-starters without an amazing metaphysical grounding and defense, which no one has really managed to do. That's why - from what I think I understand and from what I've heard - contemporary philosophy has abandoned metaphysics.
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Messages In This Thread
Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - November 6, 2013 at 10:42 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Minimalist - November 6, 2013 at 11:08 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Sejanus - November 6, 2013 at 11:26 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Brakeman - November 6, 2013 at 11:33 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - November 12, 2013 at 10:18 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Esquilax - November 12, 2013 at 10:50 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Ryantology - November 13, 2013 at 3:02 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Bob Kelso - November 6, 2013 at 11:37 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Ryantology - November 7, 2013 at 1:09 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by max-greece - November 7, 2013 at 2:15 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Esquilax - November 7, 2013 at 5:13 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by pocaracas - November 7, 2013 at 6:51 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 7, 2013 at 10:35 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Minimalist - November 7, 2013 at 4:23 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by WesOlsen - November 7, 2013 at 3:02 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by catfish - November 7, 2013 at 3:16 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by downbeatplumb - November 7, 2013 at 3:20 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by catfish - November 7, 2013 at 3:22 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Ayen - November 7, 2013 at 3:43 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - November 7, 2013 at 3:07 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Angrboda - November 9, 2013 at 3:08 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Esquilax - November 9, 2013 at 3:13 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Ayen - November 9, 2013 at 4:07 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Lemonvariable72 - November 18, 2013 at 3:04 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by WesOlsen - November 7, 2013 at 3:36 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by catfish - November 7, 2013 at 3:47 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Jackalope - November 7, 2013 at 3:52 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Optimistic Mysanthrope - November 7, 2013 at 3:45 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by WesOlsen - November 7, 2013 at 3:58 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by catfish - November 7, 2013 at 4:14 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Doubting Thomas - November 7, 2013 at 3:59 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Faith No More - November 7, 2013 at 4:24 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Simon Moon - November 7, 2013 at 4:33 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Whateverist - November 7, 2013 at 7:07 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by pocaracas - November 7, 2013 at 7:43 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Jackalope - November 7, 2013 at 7:45 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by paulpablo - November 7, 2013 at 9:31 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by genkaus - November 8, 2013 at 4:18 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - November 12, 2013 at 10:33 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - November 13, 2013 at 5:35 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Esquilax - November 13, 2013 at 6:02 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by pocaracas - November 13, 2013 at 9:46 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - November 19, 2013 at 1:55 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - November 20, 2013 at 4:31 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Zen Badger - November 13, 2013 at 5:55 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - November 19, 2013 at 1:20 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Esquilax - November 19, 2013 at 2:47 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by KichigaiNeko - November 13, 2013 at 5:56 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Mister Agenda - November 13, 2013 at 5:25 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by CapnAwesome - November 14, 2013 at 12:43 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - November 20, 2013 at 7:44 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - November 20, 2013 at 8:41 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - November 20, 2013 at 10:19 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - November 22, 2013 at 2:07 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - November 22, 2013 at 10:53 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - November 22, 2013 at 10:09 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - November 22, 2013 at 11:02 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - November 29, 2013 at 3:19 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Statler Waldorf - November 20, 2013 at 9:11 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MitchBenn - November 20, 2013 at 9:35 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Statler Waldorf - November 21, 2013 at 5:51 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Whateverist - November 21, 2013 at 6:36 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - November 21, 2013 at 3:27 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - November 21, 2013 at 6:46 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Statler Waldorf - November 22, 2013 at 7:13 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Whateverist - November 24, 2013 at 8:32 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - November 22, 2013 at 6:06 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - November 22, 2013 at 7:45 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Statler Waldorf - November 22, 2013 at 8:05 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - November 24, 2013 at 12:20 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by repentsinners - November 24, 2013 at 11:49 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by downbeatplumb - November 24, 2013 at 1:26 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by pocaracas - November 24, 2013 at 2:09 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Lemonvariable72 - November 24, 2013 at 4:20 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by pocaracas - November 24, 2013 at 4:36 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Yahweh - November 24, 2013 at 3:19 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - November 24, 2013 at 3:28 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Yahweh - November 24, 2013 at 3:37 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Statler Waldorf - November 26, 2013 at 3:11 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Mister Agenda - November 26, 2013 at 4:27 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Statler Waldorf - November 26, 2013 at 5:31 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - November 26, 2013 at 9:28 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by WesOlsen - November 27, 2013 at 8:10 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by WesOlsen - November 27, 2013 at 10:45 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by WesOlsen - November 29, 2013 at 4:15 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - November 29, 2013 at 4:43 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by houseofcantor - November 29, 2013 at 5:55 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by WesOlsen - November 29, 2013 at 7:11 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - November 29, 2013 at 10:49 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - November 29, 2013 at 5:58 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - November 29, 2013 at 9:55 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - December 3, 2013 at 12:26 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - December 3, 2013 at 12:54 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - December 3, 2013 at 1:04 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - December 3, 2013 at 1:44 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - December 3, 2013 at 3:03 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - December 3, 2013 at 3:34 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - December 3, 2013 at 4:04 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - December 3, 2013 at 8:37 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - December 4, 2013 at 9:51 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - December 5, 2013 at 10:40 am
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - December 5, 2013 at 3:58 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - December 5, 2013 at 5:08 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - December 5, 2013 at 11:50 pm
RE: Terrible Atheist Argument #1 - by MindForgedManacle - December 7, 2013 at 6:20 pm

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