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"The bible test" Answered.
#35
RE: "The bible test" Answered.
(December 7, 2013 at 4:52 pm)xpastor Wrote: Aractus, 30+ years ago I would have agreed with you entirely. In fact, I would probably have beaten you to the punch, because "the proper distinction between law and gospel" is at the heart of Lutheran theology. However, now, I have to disagree on a number of grounds.

Most importantly, you have misrepresented the passage by means of an omission. Here is the full text of Matthew 19:16-21.

I didn't misrepresent the text by omission. The answer Jesus gives is "keep the commandments". The rich young ruler would believe that he has accomplished this, although in other parts of the New Testament we're told that not even the Scribes and Pharisees who study the law to the letter, nor Rabbis, have been able to live a perfect and righteous sinless life.
  • Just then someone came up and asked Him, “Teacher, what good must I do to have eternal life?”

    “Why do you ask Me about what is good?” He said to him. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
That is the answer to his question. It's not the end of their discussion, however, but it's the answer to the question "what good deed shall I do to have eternal life?" There is no "good deed" that you can do to earn eternal life, no part of the discussion ever mentions this.
Quote:Jesus does not tell him anything resembling the gospel of forgiveness of sins. He tells the young man to obey the commandments as the way to receive eternal life. And when the young man says he has kept all these commandments (even the summary to love your neighbour as yourself) Jesus does not contradict him as Paul would have (There is none righteous, not one) he just gives him, as the Catholics would call it, a work of supererogation.
  • “Which ones?” he asked Him. Jesus answered:

    Do not murder;
    do not commit adultery;
    do not steal;
    do not bear false witness;
    honour your father and your mother;

    and love your neighbour as yourself.

The Ten Commandments (Ex 20:1-17)
Then God spoke all these words:
    I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the place of slavery.
  • Do not have other gods besides Me.
  • Do not make an idol for yourself, whether in the shape of anything in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters under the earth. You must not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the fathers’ sin, to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing faithful love to a thousand generations of those who love Me and keep My commands.
  • Do not misuse the name of the Lord your God, because the Lord will not leave anyone unpunished who misuses His name.
  • Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy: You are to labour six days and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. You must not do any work—you, your son or daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the foreigner who is within your gates. For the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and everything in them in six days; then He rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and declared it holy.
  • Honour your father and your mother so that you may have a long life in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.
  • Do not murder.
  • Do not commit adultery.
  • Do not steal.
  • Do not give false testimony against your neighbour.
  • Do not covet your neighbour’s house. Do not covet your neighbour’s wife, his male or female slave, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.
Jesus quotes him 5 out of the last six commandments. Then to finish it off he quotes Leviticus 19:18, which appears at the end of this set of commands:
  • “When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, neither shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest. And you shall not strip your vineyard bare, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner: I am the LORD your God.

    “You shall not steal; you shall not deal falsely; you shall not lie to one another. You shall not swear by my name falsely, and so profane the name of your God: I am the LORD.

    “You shall not oppress your neighbour or rob him. The wages of a hired worker shall not remain with you all night until the morning. You shall not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block before the blind, but you shall fear your God: I am the LORD.

    “You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbour. You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand up against the life of your neighbour: I am the LORD.

    “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbour, lest you incur sin because of him. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbour as yourself: I am the LORD.
Jesus does not quote him any of the first four commandments, and take note of this:
  • Deuteronomy 6:4-5: “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

    Matt 22:34-40: But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbour as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

    Matthew 23:23: “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You pay a tenth of mint, dill, and cumin, yet you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. These things should have been done without neglecting the others.
In short, Jesus is teaching that the ruler lacks love for his neighbour - not that he lacks love for God. He loves his wealth and riches more than his neighbour, and that's why he wouldn't when asked sacrifice his riches for the good of his neighbours.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK

The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK


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Messages In This Thread
"The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 4, 2013 at 7:08 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Silver - December 4, 2013 at 7:28 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by freedomfromforum - December 4, 2013 at 7:33 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Fidel_Castronaut - December 5, 2013 at 7:23 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ryantology - December 4, 2013 at 7:41 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Captain Colostomy - December 4, 2013 at 7:45 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Doubting Thomas - December 5, 2013 at 11:20 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Esquilax - December 5, 2013 at 6:50 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 5, 2013 at 10:42 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Single910 - December 12, 2013 at 8:46 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Minimalist - December 4, 2013 at 7:58 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Faith No More - December 4, 2013 at 8:00 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by LastPoet - December 5, 2013 at 6:57 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Sejanus - December 5, 2013 at 7:15 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by max-greece - December 5, 2013 at 8:09 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by max-greece - December 10, 2013 at 3:02 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 10, 2013 at 1:16 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by max-greece - December 10, 2013 at 2:15 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 10, 2013 at 3:57 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by max-greece - December 11, 2013 at 3:46 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by ThomM - December 10, 2013 at 7:12 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 5, 2013 at 10:56 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 5, 2013 at 1:38 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 5, 2013 at 5:43 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 6, 2013 at 11:19 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 7, 2013 at 4:52 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Aractus - December 7, 2013 at 7:51 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by max-greece - December 5, 2013 at 11:55 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Bad Writer - December 5, 2013 at 2:09 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 5, 2013 at 4:53 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Minimalist - December 5, 2013 at 8:36 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 6, 2013 at 11:28 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 9, 2013 at 9:46 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Aractus - December 9, 2013 at 5:56 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 10, 2013 at 1:13 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Aractus - December 10, 2013 at 2:11 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 10, 2013 at 10:12 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by MindForgedManacle - December 10, 2013 at 11:57 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Aractus - December 11, 2013 at 2:53 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 11, 2013 at 10:29 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 11, 2013 at 11:21 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 11, 2013 at 12:02 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 11, 2013 at 12:06 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 11, 2013 at 12:31 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 11, 2013 at 3:28 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 11, 2013 at 12:49 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by max-greece - December 11, 2013 at 1:17 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by max-greece - December 11, 2013 at 11:49 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Aractus - December 13, 2013 at 8:43 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 13, 2013 at 10:05 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 13, 2013 at 10:27 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Aractus - December 14, 2013 at 12:11 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 14, 2013 at 2:22 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Aractus - December 14, 2013 at 2:39 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 16, 2013 at 10:38 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 16, 2013 at 10:43 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 18, 2013 at 10:39 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by ThomM - December 17, 2013 at 4:27 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Godschild - December 6, 2013 at 9:12 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Cinjin - December 6, 2013 at 9:42 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Faith No More - December 6, 2013 at 10:05 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by LostLocke - December 7, 2013 at 1:29 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ryantology - December 7, 2013 at 8:29 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 7, 2013 at 3:15 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Godschild - December 7, 2013 at 6:03 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 7, 2013 at 7:26 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 9, 2013 at 12:35 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Minimalist - December 6, 2013 at 9:57 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Aractus - December 6, 2013 at 10:18 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by WesOlsen - December 7, 2013 at 1:46 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Cinjin - December 8, 2013 at 2:51 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 8, 2013 at 2:56 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Aractus - December 9, 2013 at 2:16 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by max-greece - December 9, 2013 at 10:50 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 9, 2013 at 11:04 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Minimalist - December 10, 2013 at 1:31 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by MindForgedManacle - December 10, 2013 at 2:26 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Lemonvariable72 - December 10, 2013 at 2:27 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by MindForgedManacle - December 10, 2013 at 3:07 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by max-greece - December 10, 2013 at 3:24 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by ThomM - December 10, 2013 at 1:10 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 11, 2013 at 1:10 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 11, 2013 at 1:35 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 11, 2013 at 5:11 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Tonus - December 11, 2013 at 9:57 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 12, 2013 at 11:24 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 11, 2013 at 4:06 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 11, 2013 at 5:21 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 11, 2013 at 5:29 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 11, 2013 at 11:21 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 11, 2013 at 1:32 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 11, 2013 at 3:10 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Tonus - December 11, 2013 at 3:48 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 11, 2013 at 4:22 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Lemonvariable72 - December 11, 2013 at 3:41 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 3:46 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 11, 2013 at 3:51 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 11, 2013 at 5:17 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 11, 2013 at 5:20 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by ThomM - December 11, 2013 at 6:34 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Lemonvariable72 - December 11, 2013 at 6:41 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by ThomM - December 11, 2013 at 7:22 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 11, 2013 at 6:55 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 12, 2013 at 10:53 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 11:04 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 12, 2013 at 12:29 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 11, 2013 at 4:12 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 4:13 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 11, 2013 at 4:49 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 11, 2013 at 5:15 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 11, 2013 at 6:45 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Lemonvariable72 - December 11, 2013 at 6:47 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 11, 2013 at 6:59 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 12, 2013 at 11:18 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 11, 2013 at 11:41 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 12, 2013 at 11:45 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 11:53 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 11:24 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 11:34 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 1:14 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 12, 2013 at 4:27 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 4:45 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 12, 2013 at 9:53 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Minimalist - December 12, 2013 at 4:53 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 5:34 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 12, 2013 at 5:41 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 5:54 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 12, 2013 at 10:14 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Minimalist - December 12, 2013 at 7:39 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 13, 2013 at 7:35 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 10:14 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 12, 2013 at 10:47 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 10:19 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 12, 2013 at 10:50 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by MindForgedManacle - December 12, 2013 at 10:31 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 12, 2013 at 10:55 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 10:48 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 10:54 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 11:02 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 14, 2013 at 12:16 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Lemonvariable72 - December 16, 2013 at 4:02 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 17, 2013 at 11:15 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 17, 2013 at 4:45 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Lemonvariable72 - December 18, 2013 at 11:47 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Esquilax - December 18, 2013 at 12:01 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Lemonvariable72 - December 18, 2013 at 12:24 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Esquilax - December 18, 2013 at 12:26 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Lemonvariable72 - December 18, 2013 at 2:41 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Tonus - December 18, 2013 at 12:06 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Bad Writer - December 18, 2013 at 1:56 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 18, 2013 at 2:55 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 19, 2013 at 1:35 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Esquilax - December 19, 2013 at 8:53 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Tonus - December 19, 2013 at 10:03 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 19, 2013 at 10:17 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by WesOlsen - December 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Lemonvariable72 - December 18, 2013 at 3:23 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Godlesspanther - December 18, 2013 at 10:35 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Bad Writer - December 19, 2013 at 8:37 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 19, 2013 at 8:51 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 19, 2013 at 9:51 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 19, 2013 at 10:51 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 19, 2013 at 11:02 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Esquilax - December 19, 2013 at 1:11 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 20, 2013 at 10:41 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Bad Writer - December 20, 2013 at 1:48 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Lemonvariable72 - December 19, 2013 at 10:03 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Esquilax - December 19, 2013 at 10:58 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by max-greece - December 19, 2013 at 11:35 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 19, 2013 at 11:49 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 19, 2013 at 12:04 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 19, 2013 at 12:12 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Bad Writer - December 19, 2013 at 1:26 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 19, 2013 at 1:28 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 20, 2013 at 11:26 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by WesOlsen - December 19, 2013 at 2:22 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 20, 2013 at 2:58 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Esquilax - December 20, 2013 at 10:25 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Lemonvariable72 - December 21, 2013 at 8:58 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by LostLocke - December 21, 2013 at 1:17 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Esquilax - December 20, 2013 at 11:03 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 20, 2013 at 11:36 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 20, 2013 at 11:46 am
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Drich - December 20, 2013 at 3:15 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 20, 2013 at 3:13 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by WesOlsen - December 20, 2013 at 4:54 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 20, 2013 at 5:36 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Bad Writer - December 20, 2013 at 5:43 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 20, 2013 at 6:47 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Lemonvariable72 - December 20, 2013 at 5:53 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Bad Writer - December 20, 2013 at 6:51 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Ksa - December 20, 2013 at 7:04 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by Bad Writer - December 20, 2013 at 7:21 pm
RE: "The bible test" Answered. - by xpastor - December 20, 2013 at 8:31 pm

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