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Does this sound too much like organized religion?
#24
RE: Does this sound too much like organized religion?
(February 13, 2010 at 4:53 am)tackattack Wrote:
(February 12, 2010 at 2:30 pm)tavarish Wrote:


An infallible plan is not a definition of free will.. you will have to define. Let me go ahead and cut to the thick of it on this one. Let's go under the assumption that God knows every possibility that ever could happen anywhere. Let's say he writes them all in his magical book reffered to in the bible (quite silly really but it helps to visualize I guess). In his creation he made everything including knowledge. He provided us dominion over all of this everything to do with as we please (free will). We choose knowledge over acceptance ( and continue to do that even today). Just because yesterday is tomrrow is now to him and he sees every possibility, doesn't indicate he shooses for us. If he is an abolute and perfect, then he can only be what he is and would only do what he does. Therefore acting on our behalf wouldn't change the outcome of the result of all the descision of all entities ever existing with free will. Perhaps you don't see his actions in your life because you reject him. His will (going off the naturalist assumption it's similar to our will) would only be focused on entities that focus on him, hence the "you have to believe to see" problem between theists and athesits.
To sum it up:
1- I have free will to focus on whichever possibilities I see as adventageous
2- God sees all possibilities relative to each individual throughout time's existance
3- God has a plan that includes every possible action I can take and he allows me to take whichever action I see fit

I never said free will is an infallible plan, I said they are non-interchangable concepts.

I understand your opinion, but the bible says it differently.

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." (Jeremiah 29:11)

"The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord ... "(Psalm 37:23)

"A man’s heart plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps." (Proverbs 16:9)

"But whoever listens to me will dwell safely, and will be secure, without fear of evil." (Proverbs 1:33)

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths." (Proverbs 3:5)

Thus says the Lord, Your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: "I am the Lord your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads you by the way you should go." (Isaiah 48:17)

"I will instruct you and teach you in the way should go; I will guide you with My eye." (Psalm 32:8)

For this is God, our God forever and ever; He will be our guide even to death." (Psalm 48:14)

"The Lord will guide you continually ..." (Isaiah 58:11)

If God sees all possibilities, it isn't a plan. It says pretty clearly that the Lord will direct you, guide you, and lead you where you SHOULD go. This already makes the assumption that you have a destiny, and God is in control of getting you there.

By the way, I reject the concept of God because I don't see his actions in my life. You can't assume something exists when the very thing you're trying to do is verify its existence. What you're describing is blind faith, anything after that is rationalization to fit your belief.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Does this sound too much like organized religion? - by tavarish - February 13, 2010 at 12:29 pm

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