(December 18, 2013 at 2:35 pm)max-greece Wrote:(December 18, 2013 at 9:48 am)I and I Wrote: Jews were never the main target for persecution ever in history.
Right - and President Obama is a pixy who sprinkles fairy dust wherever he goes.
Quote:The nazis killed more than 20 million Russians, hated the Russians, wanted to invade Russia and "cleanse" that part of Slavic people, and conducted the largest invasion by far even today. 3 million german soldiers were used in the initial invasion of russia.
Hitler went to war with Russia - yes. Hated them? Probably.
Did he blame them for the financial ruin that befell Germany after WW1? Did Mein Kampf rant about them for chapter after chapter? Was Crystal Nacht about the Russians? Did he rise to power on an anti-russian platform? Did he set up the concentration camps to deal with the Russian problem?
Your number for the Russians killed seems a bit high to me but I'm not going to argue with it. Hitler didn't kill 20 million Jews, for sure, but that might largely be because there were never 20 million Jews to kill.
Quote:AT NO POINT WERE JEWS EVER ATTACKED ON THAT SCALE THAT EVEN COMES CLOSE TO THAT.
There were 15 million Jews worldwide in the 1930's and he got a mere 6 million of them. I don't know what all the fuss was about.
Quote:not to mention the Japanese hatred for and killing 20 million Chinese......again, Jews have never experienced such attacks and oppression.
I'm not sure what point you are now trying to make. You think Jews didn't suffer enough? You want to throw some big numbers around? OK - try this one - Mao is credited with killing about 100 million Chinese people - he's the winner!!!
Yeah!!!
(December 18, 2013 at 1:47 pm)Brakeman Wrote: Hogwash! According to your train of thought, judaism is defined by the actions of a bunch of lunatic nazis. Really?
Erm - no, nobody mentioned what defines Judaism - the question was why I don't deny it?
Quote:So being jewish originally meant being a follower of the religion, but after some German haters began persecuting them in an inclusive manner, it now is just a club for prior persecution victims and their descendants?
Oh heavens no, we've had thousands of years of persecution. I'm sorry - did I give you the impression Hitler was the first? How very remiss of me. What Hitler did show, however, and for the umpteenth time, is that whatever I might choose to deny I will be marched off to a concentration camp and gassed whilst protesting that I am an atheist.
Throughout history Jews have been a target. This has primarily been at the hands of Christians but Moslems have had several good goes at it too.
The thing is - for anyone that really wants to eradicate Judaism the method is really very easy - just leave them alone and they will intergrate with society and disappear. Might take a century or 2 but eventually there won't be any left
Quote:That is pathetic isn't it? An extremely distant relative of mine was a Morman who orchestrated a massacre of christian settlers passing by on "mormon" land. So is "christian atheist" a legitimate term because they were persecuted by ignorant mormons?
Well again no. Judaism is actually more cultural than religious in the main (outside of the extreme fringe groups) and has been for a very long time. There is much more to being Jewish than the faith. I guess if you spent some time with a Jewish family - even an atheist one, you would see that they are often quite different from their fellow citizens in many ways.
Quote:You can't separate the Jew from the religion no matter how it suits your personal prejudices.
My personal prejudices? Mine?
I thought I had made this clear, perhaps I haven't. I live in Greece. I am not part of the small Jewish community here. Very few acquaintances here know I am Jewish. I don't hide it, but its not something I open a conversation with.
I am, basically, as far removed from the Jewish identity as it is possible to be, having be borne Jewish. I didn't even mention it on this forum for months. It is not how I identify myself. My Belief on this forum is stated as Atheist - pure and simple. I do not identify myself as a Jewish Atheist. It appears I am everything you think I should be, but......others tend not to agree with either of us.
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Fact: Hitler didn't come to power on a platform of anti-Jewish ranting, the nazis and zionists were collaborators during and before the war. Zionism wasn't popular among Jews so they needed all the help they could get and the nazi government helped the zionists with their plans for establishing a Jewish state and plans for settling Jews in the Middle East. The Zionist and Jewish business block was necessary to rebuild German economy after the depression. In fact you can go back and look at news paper photos of articles from American zionist groups at the time agreeing not to boycott the German economy during this rebuilding. The Zionist Jewish economic block was instrumental in helping nazi Germany rebuild it's military and economy and getting hitler elected. Not to mention every other western nation collaborating with nazis before-during-after ww2.
Ever hear of the transfer agreement?
At no point in history was there a forced mass exodus of believers in Judaism from any land. If you have any evidence to counter this claim feel free to provide it.
Yes, anti-communism was a huge platform for nazis, it was so huge that everyone else slobbed on hitlers knob and let him remilitarize Germany in hopes that he would be able to strangle communism in Russia. This is after the west had troops in Russia ready to invade after ww1.........yet we are told that those evil Commies were the aggressors during the Cold War. Fucking please.
