Theists, are you immune to being decieved?

[pocaracas]

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Stat, come on, man!
Double standards and bare assertions from you?!

We shall see my friend.

How low the mighty have fallen....

Each electron behaves like an electron.
They all have at least one thing that sets them apart from all other electrons, be it, spin, position, velocity, energy, etc...

…so essentially electrons repel one another because they are electrons and electrons repel one another? What is that?

It is what it is...
If there is a cause for it, we have no way of ascertaining it. If you do have such a way, please write your paper, claim the million dollars and the Nobel prize.

It is what it is? Could you imagine if a theist did this? “We know God exists because that is just the way it is!” From a Christian perspective such regularities make perfect sense, I want to know how they make sense in a purely material Universe. You do not know?

Until such a cause is proven to exist, there is no reason to assume that it does.

Sure there is, I am not aware of anything material being uncaused. There has to be a reason as to why matter behaves with such regularity.

Because on an irregular universe you, me, we wouldn't be here to ask such questions.

This is the fallacy of the irrelevant thesis.

A: How did you survive in the woods for three weeks on your own?
B: Because if I did not I would not be here to tell you I survived.
A: Huh?

"why"... as if someone thought of all this and then made it so...

You’re not supposed to have any “just because” beliefs in your conceptual scheme my friend. There is always a reason.

OK, it's not a bare assertion.... it's a biblical assertion...

And when I am asked specifically how I know something about the God of the Bible I am going to appeal to the Bible; makes sense.

So... the jewish yahweh concept didn't evolve into the christian trinity concept at some point?...say... 1800 years ago?

No, the Trinitarian God of the New Testament is still YHWH.

There's the bare assertion I remember reading earlier...

If I am going to receive a bare assertion (i.e. God is hiding) I see no reason as to why I am not allowed to respond with one.

Ah... another bare assertion...

Not at all. As has been evidenced in these discussions, non-believers love to believe in that which they cannot account for (such as regularities in Nature). More precisely, they believe in that which only the Christian Theist can account for (such as regularities in Nature). The ironic part is that they will then use these beliefs as a foundation for arguing against Christian Theism (such as appealing to science which assumes regularities in Nature have always existed and always will exist). Therefore, Christian theism must be true in order for them to be able to argue against it. It’s a classic case of self-refutation.

3rd bare assertion? tss tss tss "I am disapoint".

No, third supported assertion. Evidence requires that there are, always have been, and always will be regularities in Nature. Of course, only Christian Theism can make sense of such regularities.

And 4th... you are truly falling from grace...

Then make sense of them; so far all you have provided is, “that’s just the way it is” and they are “uncaused”.

Would it, now?

Yes, because there is no reason that our senses would accurately perceive reality in an unguided purely material universe. In a Christian Theistic universe we have reasons.

Why do you keep asking that?

It’s a principle of reasoning; you are not rationally allowed to believe something without being able to provide sufficient justification for possessing that belief. When a materialist appeals to natural regularities I want to know how he can make sense of that belief consistently within his materialism. What is causing such regularities?

The magic man in the sky takes care of every strange question that your (and other people's) minds can come up with.

It’s not a strange question at all; it’s a rather fundamental and rather simple one. I never said anything about a magic man in the sky either.

And if we ask why does the man in the sky exist?

I never said anything about a man in the sky; perhaps you are getting your conversations confused.

I may have read it wrong, but I think he means that if we don't exist, electrons would go on doing their stuff... but no one would be around to measure it and marvel in their effects...

Ok, so what? How is that relevant to what we are talking about? I am wanting to know what governs the behavior of such particles and matter in general in a purely material universe.

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Ah... there's the Stat I've learned to enjoy...

Sadly, today, I don't have the half hour to reply point by point.
So going on a fly-by...
Regularity in Nature is observed. We observe that there's something that consistently exhibits the same behavior, so we've named these things. Cataloged them and now use the catalog when we refer to them.

Gods, on the other hand, we can't observe...
You say it yourself, "the god of the bible"... not necessarily the real god, if such a thing exists... but the one described by the bible.
It's not something we can observe. We can only trust in the contents of that bible and accept it... or not. Sadly, for the bible, there are many other such books, some describing similar gods (jews' yahweh, muslim's allah), some describing very different gods (hindu vedas, egyptian book of the dead...).
So, if trust is to be put on one of them, then how to decide in which?
I'd go with observation... but none of the gods described is the sort that actually shows up for scrutiny...
That leaves trust none as the most honest position available.

So, how do I account for the regularity in Nature? What causes this regularity? Why is it regular?
I don't know.
I think we first need to establish that there is an underlying reason for such regularity. There may not be.
String theory seems to be a step towards accomplishing that goal... let's wait and see how that turns out.
Until then, I see no reason to trust your favorite book of mythology... nor any other, for that matter.

Merry christmas, stat!