(February 27, 2010 at 4:29 pm)Xyster Wrote: God is the worst argument for exsistance. Needing a god to have something is not logical to me. Why is it so hard for people to imagine the Universe that we can observe in all its complexity has just always been here in one way or another, just always in a state of change. I find it redonkulous that people can belive that the universe was created by some god that we have never seen or have proof of, If there was a creator he would himself have to be complex. So you cant belive a complex universe exsist without being created by a complex being?!?
You propose a eternal cosmos, in what ever form. its not possible.
from my personal virtual library :
An Absurd Library
To see the absurdity and contradictions of an actual infinite number of things in the real world imagine or hypothesize your campus library having an infinite number of black books and an infinite number of green books, alternating colours on the shelves and numbered consecutively on the spines.
Does it make any sense to say that there are as many black books as there are black plus green books together? But that is what you would have to say if you want to claim the infinite is possible in the real world.
Suppose you withdrew all the green books. How many books are there left in the library? There would still be an infinite number of books in the library even though we just withdrew an infinite number and found a way to get them home! Suppose you withdrew the books numbered 4,5,6...and so on. Now how many books are left? THREE! Something surely is wrong here! One time we subtract an infinite number of books and we're left with an infinite number; the next time we subtract an infinite number and we're left with three - a clear logical contradiction. Since our hypothesis leads to a contradiction, the hypothesis must be false - a library with an actual infinite number of books cannot exist.
While we can avoid these contradictions in the mathematical realm by making up rules like you can't subtract or divide when using infinity, we cannot in the real world prevent people from taking books out of libraries.
Therefore, since a beginningless past would be an actual infinite number of things (events) and since an actual infinite number of things cannot exist in the real world, it follows logically that the past is not infinite. The universe had a beginning.
