Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: February 21, 2025, 11:01 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Please Help Me Understand Consciousness
#12
RE: Please Help Me Understand Consciousness
I don't know enough about quantum mechanics to answer your questions, but you may find the following article helpful in placing his comments on Bell.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/media/...1_0158.pdf

As regards "actual information" traveling, a common example involves a huge pair of scissors. If you imagine a pair of scissors several hundred miles long, the point at which the scissors blades meet, when closing the scissors, may move faster than the speed of light. However, that point isn't an actual thing or quantum of information that's moving, the idea of where the scissors meet is the only place where the speed of light is being violated, not in actuality.

As to the question of a conscious observer or an inanimate object collapsing the waveform, it's possible Stenger overstates things. The question of exactly what causes the wave form to collapse is an open question in physics, leading to theories like decoherence, but overall, I think the trend has been to try to get away from the idea that a consciousness must be involved in order for the wave form to collapse.

I was surprised that Stenger took the approach that he did, and am unsure whether it is an effective critique of the work of people like Crick and Penrose and et al. The most common criticism of such models is that, from the perspective of traditional neuroscience, the important events in the brain happen at too large a scale and in too noisy an environment for quantum effects not to be "drowned out" in the operation of the more macroscopic processes of neurons and neural tissue. Another common criticism is that quantum theoretical models add indeterminacy and randomness, but neither of these additions lead directly to an explanation of the unique abilities and properties of consciousness. Much like in the free will debate, adding randomness doesn't yield an ordered process; many QM consciousness advocates seem to suggest that if you can just make consciousness dependent on quantum level events, you'll have explained consciousness. I don't think that's true.

A couple of google terms you might find helpful in organizing your search are "David Chalmers" and "the hard problem" (of consciousness).
[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Please Help Me Understand Consciousness - by Mudhammam - March 6, 2014 at 5:44 am
RE: Please Help Me Understand Consciousness - by Cinjin - March 8, 2014 at 3:24 am
RE: Please Help Me Understand Consciousness - by Angrboda - March 8, 2014 at 2:58 pm
RE: Please Help Me Understand Consciousness - by fr0d0 - March 8, 2014 at 3:19 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  [Serious] What is the current best scientific evidence we have that shows that consciousness... born_to_be_a_loser 28 1067 January 14, 2025 at 8:11 pm
Last Post: Tonus
  PLEASE: birds, bees, flowers and trees! Haipule 24 3505 January 6, 2020 at 12:07 pm
Last Post: Rahn127
  It's 2019 can we please stop the stupid? Brian37 80 9678 September 3, 2019 at 3:02 am
Last Post: EgoDeath
  Can someone help me understand this potential finding and what it implies? orthodox-man 16 2880 May 6, 2018 at 12:18 am
Last Post: Fireball
  Consciousness causes higher entropy compared to unconscious states in the human brain uncool 40 7724 February 1, 2018 at 1:49 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Thoughts on a multiverse/consciousness Gessle 32 7917 February 14, 2015 at 4:21 pm
Last Post: Alex K
  Qualified people please LogicOrDie 14 3889 July 4, 2014 at 9:00 am
Last Post: Cyberman
  Does Matter Create Consciousness? Or Vice Versa? Mudhammam 24 7393 January 2, 2014 at 11:39 am
Last Post: Mudhammam
  How to measure consciousness? The_Flying_Skeptic 3 2403 November 27, 2011 at 7:06 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Origins of consciousness Mal Kiever 15 4006 November 12, 2011 at 9:27 am
Last Post: KichigaiNeko



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)