An atheists guide to reality

[*Deidre*]

I see, that's an interesting idea of it.

I don't think we ''think ourselves'' as valuable, as much as how we affect other people's lives, using our lives. Altruism has been studied over the years, as stemming from evolution. A component of evolution, so to speak. I believe our value becomes contingent upon what we actually do with our lives. Let's pretend we both are spiritual and believe in the idea of a god existing. This doesn't automatically mean we will go forth and help humanity. I've met many religious people over the years, who go to church, pray, seem pious, but are bigots and racists. They are not adding much 'value' to society, if all they do is basically pay homage to a Deity, but turn their back on their fellow man. I'm generalizing, on purpose, fully aware that there are awesome people in the world, doing amazing things to bring about positive change, who are religious. But, my point is more that if a spiritual realm exists, and it requires belief in it to 'tap into the goodness of it,' that would be a falsehood, seeing that many religious people are not living their lives with purpose. Many religious people are depressed, lost, addicted to drugs, sex, porn, alcohol, etc. Just like those who are NOT religious, have similar vices.

At the end of the day, the quality of our lives are due to our choices. Due to human choices, and not that of a spiritual influence. Religious people will pass off all the good things happening in their lives as that of a spiritual influence, but really, they made good choices, and thus, they reaped what they sowed.

Our lives have value if we do something valuable with them, whether a god exists or not. Whether a spiritual realm exists or not.

Well I agree with what you said except I do believe we have value already but we increase or decrease based on how we act and except with our lives having actually value if God or spiritual realm exists or not. It's true Atheists can be better humans than people who are religious or spiritual but it doesn't prove your last two lines.

It actually does. lol Because if Atheists are capable of living positive, productive fulfilling healthy lives...that would be evidence that a spiritual realm is not necessary to do so. (since they don't believe that a spiritual realm exists)

Unless, you are inferring that whether we believe in a spiritual realm or not, there is one propelling our lives in some (positive) fashion? That we have value based on that? (if you affirm that, I would disagree)