Evidence God Exists

[Godscreated]

[quote='Godschild' pid='61810' dateline='1269922564']
tavarish I do not understand how you misundersood what I wrote. My point is this many claim to be christians saved by the grace of God but when they use the church only for personal gain and leave Christ out of their lives they show what they truly worship money,power,good standing in their community and so forth. As for the Scotsman you can boot him off the road and here's why Christ said that we could tell by their fruits who the true christians are. Christ also said that many would come before Him and say Lord, Lord haven't I done this and that in your name and I will say to them leave me for I do not know you. So you and your Scotsman buddy can forget the idea of a christian defending or judging another christian Jesus has already set guidelines on this. Christains make mistakes all the time we are not perfect that's why we accept Christ as our redeemer. Tavarish you want to apply logic to a supernatural being and logic can not prove or disprove God. Your logic might disapprove of God but your logic can not disprove what it can not define.

And around this merry go round once more.

You're claiming that some people aren't REAL Christians based on their personal beliefs being different than yours. This is called the No true Scotsman fallacy, which basically outlines that people within your social group or religion that you don't agree with weren't real members anyway, therefore their actions are not representative of the group.

No I'm not that's what you are saying about me. I know about the Scotsman. I'm saying that there are those who will use christianity for self gain and christians are to have a relationship with Christ based on trust and sacrifice. Jesus said that the road to salvation was a narrow road,that the gate to salvation was narrow and that few would enter. Jesus said that only through Him is salvation given. Jesus said that no one comes unto the Father except through Him. It's not about different beliefs it's about the one true belief and that's accepting Christ as ones savior and following Him. All the other stuff is what seperates the church into different denominations.

You're the one judging people by their "fruits", and asking absurd questions like if the Pope's really Catholic or not.

Matthew 7:13-23 read it. Jesus in those verses tells us that we can tell who is true to the faith and who is not and His words are So you,shall recognize them by their fruit. Paul states what the good and bad fruits are in Galatians 5:19-24. So you see no one has to judge them they will show themselves to be what they are and it's for we who are christians to recognize them for what they are. Christ told us these things for our protection from harm from those in the church who would do us harm.
You are absolutely correct in saying it would be absurd to question whither or not the Pope is Catholic. He is 100% Cathloic. I never stated that he was not Catholic. I only asked Thor if he wanted to argue if Pope Urban II had received salvation through Christ.

You also failed to demonstrate how the Pope left Christ out of his life and used the church only for personal gain.

I never tried to demonstrate how the Pope left Christ out of his life or that he used the church for personal gain. Thor has not as of today given me a answer about arguing the point of Pope Urban II salvation.

Would a want of personal gain be a negation of a belief in Christ? Why?

No not entirely. Christains should not be looking for personal gain in their relationship with Christ,this is not about us it's all about Christ. We as christians should be sacrificing,that is giving of our selves for others to honor Christ. Our reward will come in eternity with Christ.While here in this body we are to give of ourselves and of that which God has blessed us with. Tavarish personal gain could be anything from praying for pesonal healing to a TV preacher raking in the cash from those who do not understand the Bible they are not seeing the wolf dressed in sheeps clothing.

Where did I try to prove or disprove God? Stop with the red herrings, thanks.

I'm sorry that I stated my reply in a way that led you to believe I was impling you did. What I was trying to say was that logic has no way of proving,disproving or defining a supernatural being like the christian God.