SATAN!

[tavarish]

The group of people (Nazis) thought it lawful to kill, where the rest of the world/ the balance of majority view judged that to be unlawful.

God kills justly. Your reconstruction is inaccurate.

LOL. You just reiterated your assertion without backing it up at all.

You basically said "nuh uh, I'm right".

Gods law is known and fixed. God can't violate this law, or we'd have to redefine 'just'.

Why is God bound to a law? Why can't he violate it?

Because that would be illogical. You're invoking the impossible God again... which is an illogical consideration.

Let's backtrack. YOU said God's law is known and fixed and that he can't violate it, which means he is BOUND to it. I'm asking you how you know this, how you know necessary qualities of a deity you can't demonstrate, and why that deity, being all powerful, can't violate the rules.

It's stated many times in the bible... just so's you understand the reference here, and how it relates to humanity.

I still don't get what you're trying to say. What's panning out?

To say that the God of the bible is unjust, is to say our own sense of justice is wrong. I trust that my sense of justice is correct, and I trust that the God of the bible is just.

How does one idea of justice equal the other? I do say the God of the Bible is unjust, and the way I can make this assertion is exactly because our concepts of justice and morality have evolved past those portrayed in the Bible. We (western society) don't embrace slavery, don't treat women as property, don't burn witches, don't stone people to death, and don't kill people for not believing or practicing the same religion we practice. This is an example of how secular ideals set straight the backwards laws and morals practiced and promoted by the God of the Bible.

To think justice is unchanging is to misunderstand how societal values change over time.

If you look at what the bible says you'll see that God's justice matches your own there.

I just gave you specific examples of how it doesn't.

You are of course twisting the truth to arrive at those conclusions.

Would you like specific Bible verses?

Secular ideals are fluid, and cause the injustices you cite (hence Nazi injustice).

Secular ideals allow us to evaluate every claim on its own merit and develop a sense of justice that is not only the most beneficial to society, but the one that allows the most progression. You ever wonder WHY we can acknowledge what the Nazis did as injustice? Because of secular ideals that evolve with their environment, not a divine ordered mandate made in the Bronze Age Middle East. Why is it that the Roman Catholic Church endorsed Hitler, if they knew he was acting against God's Law?

Christians do attribute justice to God, and don't use God to negate their own responsibilities. You're straying into fantasy land again. LMAO @ 'realistic'

Yes, but we don't live in a Christian theocracy, nor do we operate by the morality of the Bible. If we did, we'd still be stuck stoning people and burning witches and be completely justified in doing so. I don't think you're understanding that ideals have evolved by means of secular standards, not theistic ones. It's when you take religion OUT of the picture when we finally can gain a sense of equality and justice.

Lets factor in a timeless God, who would know the lives of said infants and their descendants. Couldn't he judge that it was merciful to end their lives? It's a question unanswerable by us, other than we know God to be just, and can trust in his actions.

Now why exactly would I trust in his actions if he's killing my child because I didn't paint lamb's blood on my door, or I just happened to live in the wrong village? God's morality as portrayed in the Bible is a fucking joke. In life, lots of things can occur. When you necessarily attribute them to an invisible deity, then say his actions were necessarily justified JUST BECAUSE he is that deity and he makes the rules doesn't make it automatically OK. Like I've said before, the killing of Jews was a necessary evil, it was not seen as murder by the Nazis. From your side of the fence, God's fine and you trust in his judgement, but from the side in which the western world operates, we have long left those broken and inconsistent forms of ideology you call God's law.

No, because we can know that God is just.

How can you know this?

God never mandates murder, only legal taking of life.

Based on criteria that in today's standards, would be considered murder.

It's become quite clear that you don't understand that the developed world DOES NOT WORK on God's Law.

Likewise rape, infanticide & torture... God cannot condone that which is contradictory to his nature. That would be impossible.

RAPE:

Deuteronomy 20:10-14

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

Numbers 31:7-18 NLT

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

INFANTICIDE:

Exodus 12:29-30 NLT

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died.

Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.

TORTURE:

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 NLT

Suppose a man has a stubborn, rebellious son who will not obey his father or mother, even though they discipline him. In such cases, the father and mother must take the son before the leaders of the town. They must declare: 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and refuses to obey. He is a worthless drunkard.' Then all the men of the town must stone him to death. In this way, you will cleanse this evil from among you, and all Israel will hear about it and be afraid.

Joshua 7:15 NLT

The one who has stolen what was set apart for destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has, for he has broken the covenant of the LORD and has done a horrible thing in Israel.



There are hundreds more where this came from.

Lets consider nature. Nature doesn't function on morality, but on natural law, some of which we don't yet understand. In nature, death, and sometimes death by horrible means is a fact of life.

The law that determines death is ultimately a positive one. We consider it neither good nor bad... but really it's good... because it is what life is based upon.

We consider it neither good nor bad but it's good because I say it is. Nice.

Life, in the simplest sense, is a process in which an organism uses energy to sustain itself and attempt to reproduce. Since it isn't a 100% efficient system, energy is lost, and eventually entropy takes over and that organism ceases to function. Life can also be lost in an circumstances in which a vital part of the organism's life support is compromised. This process is amoral, as it has no say on HOW to live your life.

What morality has an effect on is how we treat each other, and how we expect to be treated in return. Saying God's Law is just because it's God administering it is special pleading, as it would be called murder in any other sense. I contend that I am more moral than the God of the Bible, and so are you. In order to come to the conclusion that God is morally just, you must first evaluate his actions by your OWN sense of morality, then make a distinction. The scary part is that you think his actions are justified, but I can't say that it's a shock.