(May 8, 2014 at 10:03 pm)Avodaiah Wrote:(May 8, 2014 at 9:49 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: I see no reason not to think that the whole of existence is not an eternally-working process. If cause must precede effect, then there cannot logically be a single starting point of everything. To assert so is to force a logical argument to contradict its own logic.That's the whole point, Ryan. There can't be a single starting point of everything unless who/whatever started it does not change and exists outside of time.
But it's impossible for anything that exists solely within this universe to go infinitely back in time, since everything in the universe is moving. Beginning is a necessary part of motion. Sorry to borrow from Thunderf00t, but saying motion has no beginning is like saying circles are not round.
I've bolded the part I disagree with. How can you say a creator brought everything into existence without changing itself? How do you know that "existing outside of time" is a thing which any noun can possess? How do you know you aren't just saying weird things which mean nothing?
So no I also can't agree with your premises.
