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Does it make sense to speak of "Universal Consciousness" or "Universal Intelligence"?
#64
RE: Does it make sense to speak of "Universal Consciousness" or "Univer...
(May 16, 2014 at 11:15 am)Cato Wrote:
(May 16, 2014 at 10:07 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Because Von Neuman brought consciousness into physics with the orthodox interpretation. As Henry Stapp explains, big things, like biological systems, are made from small things, like atoms. The measurement problem requires an observer that sits outside the physical system in which the wave collapse occurs. The Copenhagen interpretation is a pragmatic approach that glosses over the underlying ontological reality. If you want to understand consciousness you must look to the orthodox interpretation.

Name dropping von Neuman and Stapp quickly leads to the unsupported conclusion that God did it.

The idea that consciousness is required for wave function collapse immediately presents a problem, how did the universe operate before the biological evolution of consciousness? Either consciousness isn't required for wave function collapse or a pre-evolutionary conscious, for which there is zero evidence, must be conjured into existence.

The real problem is that people reflexively and wrongly anthropomorphize observer in QM. This is how the idea of consciousness becomes a nuisance and useless stowaway on the Goodship QM.
Well gee, if God is involved it cannot possibly be true...that comment just goes to show that your objections are not scientific but rather ideological.

Perhaps you didn't notice that I clearly distinguished between the pragmatic Copenhagen interpretation and the ontological orthodox one. You just cannot eliminate the role of the conscious observer. The physical apparatuses that perform the measurements are part of the quantum process and the physical brain is also part of the quantum process. Where in your theory do you make the cut between the quantum event and the 'observer'? In the photographic plate? In the retina that relays the image on the plate? In the visual cortex of the brain? Exactly where in the series of physical events does the wave function collapse? The fact is there is an indeterminate physical event awaiting interpretation by something that is not a part of that physical system. You can call it woo all day long but its still reality.
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RE: Does it make sense to speak of "Universal Consciousness" or "Univer... - by Neo-Scholastic - May 16, 2014 at 11:47 am

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