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Literal belief in the flood story
RE: Literal belief in the flood story
(May 21, 2014 at 1:05 am)orangebox21 Wrote:
(May 18, 2014 at 6:31 am)Tonus Wrote: Omniscience is a tricky one, though. The Bible doesn't claim that god is omniscient,

Fair enough, I'll concede the point.
orangebox21 Wrote:
(May 18, 2014 at 6:31 am)Tonus Wrote: and at times it shows that he changes his mind (as he did when he decided to spare Noah).
A difficult understanding. I will defer to someone who knows more than I do: Does God change His mind?
If I'm reading that correctly, it sounds as if they're explaining why god would change his mind, or why he would make it seem as if he did. The implication that god played a fairly elaborate word game just to provide very subtle prophetic clues is a whole other discussion, I think.
orangebox21 Wrote:
(May 18, 2014 at 6:31 am)Tonus Wrote: If man is made in god's image, and man is a creature given to experimentation and occasional failure on the way to reaching goals, it doesn't seem so odd to assume that god would be the same.
That is a very logical approach to the subject. There are a few things to consider in your assertion. First, while man was created in God's image, that doesn't mean that man is God. Man being made in God's image does not necessitate that what man does God does or vice versa. We often can only understand God by viewing Him through human understanding which reduces Him to our level so to speak. Secondly, while man was created in God's image, man has fallen from that image and has been cursed. It is quite possible that in our created state we wouldn't make mistakes on our way to understanding.
That leaves us in the position of having to blindly determine which of god's qualities are reflected by man, and to what degree. We can pick and choose those which are convenient to our argument, one way or another. And if you run into any inconsistencies you can fall back on the lack of understanding, or on man's imperfect nature. Now god's actions become inscrutable and can be used to justify pretty much anything. That is one of those areas that was a problem for me as a believer.
orangebox21 Wrote:
(May 18, 2014 at 6:31 am)Tonus Wrote: Yes, or if he can really see into the hearts of men and determine what sort of person they are. But if that was the case, he could have headed off the problem long before it would have necessitated destroying almost all life on the planet. Otherwise we are left to wonder why he let things get to that point before taking action.
Why do you think He waited?
Forgive the snark, but I think it's because he is a fictional character in a story that needed for him to wait to set up the action.

The JWs teach that Satan turned Adam and Eve against god to prove that humanity did not need god to guide them, and that god therefore allowed a period of time for humanity to prove Satan's point. When we consider the rank unfairness of the way god rigged the game (by cursing humans with imperfection and a world that suddenly turned against them), it makes the flood narrative completely illogical. If humanity had --within a few hundred or a few thousand years,-- gone almost completely bad, then god's point was proven. Man in his fallen condition without god was doomed. Why draw out the drama for another few thousand years, knowing that the end result would be no different?
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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Messages In This Thread
Literal belief in the flood story - by RobbyPants - April 4, 2014 at 8:08 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by KUSA - April 4, 2014 at 8:34 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Justtristo - April 14, 2014 at 4:13 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by SteelCurtain - April 4, 2014 at 8:35 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Cato - April 4, 2014 at 8:42 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by truthBtold - April 4, 2014 at 8:42 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Senshi - April 4, 2014 at 9:16 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by tor - April 4, 2014 at 9:32 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by AT7iLA - April 5, 2014 at 12:30 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Chas - April 5, 2014 at 12:32 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Zen Badger - April 5, 2014 at 2:41 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by LostLocke - April 5, 2014 at 11:59 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Alex K - April 5, 2014 at 1:30 am
Re: RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by KUSA - April 5, 2014 at 1:35 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by DarkHorse - April 5, 2014 at 3:27 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Zen Badger - April 5, 2014 at 3:32 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by RobbyPants - April 5, 2014 at 7:50 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Celi - April 5, 2014 at 10:48 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Mystical - April 5, 2014 at 12:25 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by DarkHorse - April 5, 2014 at 3:07 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by hobie - April 16, 2014 at 1:56 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by DarkHorse - April 16, 2014 at 5:29 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by RobbyPants - April 16, 2014 at 1:34 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Mystical - April 5, 2014 at 4:50 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by archangle - April 5, 2014 at 6:52 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by orangebox21 - April 6, 2014 at 2:38 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by truthBtold - April 6, 2014 at 9:07 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Esquilax - April 6, 2014 at 9:23 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by RobbyPants - April 6, 2014 at 1:45 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Minimalist - April 6, 2014 at 2:00 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by DarkHorse - April 6, 2014 at 3:05 am
Literal belief in the flood story - by Rampant.A.I. - April 6, 2014 at 3:10 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Mystical - April 6, 2014 at 11:48 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Mystical - April 6, 2014 at 2:20 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by RobbyPants - April 6, 2014 at 5:34 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by The Valkyrie - April 6, 2014 at 5:43 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Mystical - April 6, 2014 at 7:41 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Esquilax - April 6, 2014 at 9:52 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by orangebox21 - April 7, 2014 at 12:23 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by DarkHorse - April 7, 2014 at 4:11 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Esquilax - April 7, 2014 at 5:05 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Faith No More - April 7, 2014 at 10:20 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by RobbyPants - April 7, 2014 at 10:49 am
Literal belief in the flood story - by Rampant.A.I. - April 7, 2014 at 3:03 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by pocaracas - April 7, 2014 at 3:31 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Zen Badger - April 7, 2014 at 4:44 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by ManMachine - April 7, 2014 at 5:23 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by archangle - April 7, 2014 at 7:37 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by DarkHorse - April 7, 2014 at 9:53 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Minimalist - April 16, 2014 at 2:10 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Zen Badger - April 16, 2014 at 5:08 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Minimalist - April 16, 2014 at 11:41 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by orangebox21 - April 16, 2014 at 1:31 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by truthBtold - April 16, 2014 at 1:37 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by RobbyPants - April 16, 2014 at 2:49 pm
Literal belief in the flood story - by Rampant.A.I. - April 16, 2014 at 2:07 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by truthBtold - April 16, 2014 at 2:21 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by zebo-the-fat - April 16, 2014 at 2:44 pm
Literal belief in the flood story - by Rampant.A.I. - April 16, 2014 at 2:52 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Simon Moon - April 16, 2014 at 2:54 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Minimalist - April 16, 2014 at 3:18 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Wyrd of Gawd - April 20, 2014 at 1:02 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by orangebox21 - April 21, 2014 at 11:31 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Esquilax - April 22, 2014 at 12:21 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by RobbyPants - April 22, 2014 at 10:10 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Darkstar - April 22, 2014 at 5:37 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Wyrd of Gawd - April 22, 2014 at 6:48 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by orangebox21 - April 30, 2014 at 1:25 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by RobbyPants - April 30, 2014 at 8:39 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by orangebox21 - May 4, 2014 at 10:29 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Godschild - May 1, 2014 at 3:35 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by RobbyPants - May 1, 2014 at 10:12 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Godschild - May 2, 2014 at 1:06 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Godschild - May 2, 2014 at 2:26 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by pocaracas - May 2, 2014 at 3:16 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Godschild - May 5, 2014 at 9:14 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Esquilax - May 5, 2014 at 9:36 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Godschild - May 5, 2014 at 4:03 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Esquilax - May 6, 2014 at 3:08 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by RobbyPants - May 2, 2014 at 10:17 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Godschild - May 2, 2014 at 5:52 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Chas - May 3, 2014 at 2:38 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Chas - May 2, 2014 at 12:14 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by pocaracas - May 1, 2014 at 4:59 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Bad Wolf - May 2, 2014 at 5:32 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by pocaracas - May 2, 2014 at 5:53 am
Literal belief in the flood story - by Rampant.A.I. - May 2, 2014 at 2:29 pm
Literal belief in the flood story - by Rampant.A.I. - May 2, 2014 at 6:49 pm
Literal belief in the flood story - by Rampant.A.I. - May 2, 2014 at 10:46 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Godschild - May 5, 2014 at 4:32 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Tonus - May 7, 2014 at 9:58 am
Literal belief in the flood story - by Rampant.A.I. - May 5, 2014 at 4:11 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Bad Wolf - May 5, 2014 at 5:00 pm
Literal belief in the flood story - by Rampant.A.I. - May 5, 2014 at 5:59 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Godschild - May 7, 2014 at 7:15 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by RobbyPants - May 7, 2014 at 11:38 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Hoopington - May 7, 2014 at 12:21 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Esquilax - May 7, 2014 at 12:45 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Godschild - May 8, 2014 at 5:21 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Esquilax - May 8, 2014 at 8:17 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Chas - May 8, 2014 at 9:09 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Esquilax - May 7, 2014 at 7:29 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Jackalope - May 7, 2014 at 2:47 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Tonus - May 7, 2014 at 3:44 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by DarkHorse - May 8, 2014 at 2:39 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by DarkHorse - May 8, 2014 at 7:32 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by orangebox21 - May 13, 2014 at 12:22 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Esquilax - May 13, 2014 at 1:17 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Tonus - May 13, 2014 at 5:49 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Hoopington - May 13, 2014 at 7:02 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by RobbyPants - May 13, 2014 at 9:22 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by orangebox21 - May 13, 2014 at 4:26 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Esquilax - May 13, 2014 at 4:30 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Tonus - May 14, 2014 at 6:19 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Hoopington - May 14, 2014 at 7:23 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Brakeman - May 14, 2014 at 7:45 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by RobbyPants - May 19, 2014 at 9:00 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by orangebox21 - May 16, 2014 at 4:27 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Esquilax - May 17, 2014 at 4:13 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Tonus - May 17, 2014 at 4:46 pm
Literal belief in the flood story - by Rampant.A.I. - May 16, 2014 at 4:44 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Chas - May 16, 2014 at 6:57 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by orangebox21 - May 18, 2014 at 1:07 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Esquilax - May 18, 2014 at 1:29 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Tonus - May 18, 2014 at 6:31 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Minimalist - May 18, 2014 at 2:30 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Mystical - May 18, 2014 at 8:19 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Minimalist - May 18, 2014 at 11:08 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by orangebox21 - May 21, 2014 at 1:05 am
REqll: Literal belief in the flood story - by Mystical - May 21, 2014 at 3:00 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Esquilax - May 21, 2014 at 3:29 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Tonus - May 21, 2014 at 5:57 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by RobbyPants - May 21, 2014 at 2:11 pm
Literal belief in the flood story - by Rampant.A.I. - May 21, 2014 at 1:10 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by orangebox21 - May 22, 2014 at 12:20 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Tonus - May 22, 2014 at 5:57 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by RobbyPants - May 22, 2014 at 12:09 pm
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by Mystical - May 22, 2014 at 12:32 am
RE: Literal belief in the flood story - by pocaracas - May 22, 2014 at 6:17 am

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