(May 27, 2014 at 8:09 pm)Heywood Wrote:(May 27, 2014 at 7:25 pm)Artur Axmann Wrote: Atheism is a close ended belief system where everything is explained in terms of the natural order of things.
And so ,no god or gods , only nature .
But in nature all things are linked together and everything has precedence which can be traced back to the big bang.
But the problem for the godless is how to explain rational thinking.
Since thoughts are events, all of our thoughts should be fully explainable in mechanical terms, and not to a person’s free-will .. But any thought which is not guided by what is “true” but only by mechanical , physical needs ,is not rational.
And if one comes to his beliefs and thoughts not because he chose it, but because it was all that the total universe would allow, then the" nature is everything"is, basically , self-defeating.
No belief is rational if it can be fully explained in terms of non-rational causes.
If all there is ,is materialism , then all beliefs can be fully explained in terms of non-rational causes.
so if materialism is true, then no belief is rational. If any belief is based that no belief is rationally derived , then it should be rejected ... Therefore materialism ,atheism and nothing but nature should also be rejected ..
but there's more : any notion of good and evil, right and wrong, love and hate, etc., must also be treated as mythical. nothing more than helpful ideas , but ideas with no existence ( ontology) of their own. Life would then be essentially meaningless since its ultimate goal is mere survival, an unattainable goal in a world where death is guaranteed and final.
Rational thinking is going to exist with or without God. The condition of God's non existence does not imply that rational thinking does not exist. The two are separate and distinct things which do not depend on each other or one another.
Rational thinking works because it allows the thinker to eminently navigate reality. Rational thinking is going to be selected for over irrational thinking because irrational thinking does not allow the thinker to navigate reality for very long. The atheist trust they evolved to think rationally, just as you trust God gave you the ability to think rationally.
Yes, rational thinking can exist without believing in god ,but up to a point.
Rational thinking cannot be totally explained in materialistic terms because it's evolution cannot be explained soley on a purely natural basis.
Perception by evolutionary principles ,must evolve from sentient being or beings.
Human consciousness must serve the evolutionary process in ways other than the mechanical process of instinct.
Good and evil come about as a result and thusly form the religion basis to human existence.