Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: January 9, 2025, 6:28 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
A reason to believe?
#28
RE: A reason to believe?
(April 30, 2010 at 11:43 am)fr0d0 Wrote:
(April 30, 2010 at 5:57 am)Atheist_named_Christian Wrote: There are several problems:

1. There is no "right" or "wrong" - moral absolutism is one of the worst things about christianity (and most other religions, too). It leads to intolerance and arrogance based on values one is not allowed to even think about. It is not a given that your or my set of ethical values is the best (whatever that should mean) - it is important to question these values.
In essence Christianity is about questioning your values unselfishly. Again, you're talking perversion by people.
No, it is not (yes it is that simple). Religion is exactly about NOT questioning the values of your respective church. Christian authorities are giving ABSLOUTE ethical values which are not to be questioned. As soon as you start thinking about any kind of religion it will turn out to be either illogical or completely pointless.

(April 30, 2010 at 11:43 am)fr0d0 Wrote:
(April 30, 2010 at 5:57 am)Atheist_named_Christian Wrote: 2. Realism is not involved at all. If this was the case, religion wouldn't need a divine being that punishes those who disobey.
I don't see how this is relevant. In our secular society there's punishment for wrongdoing. None of us are free from it. People thrive knowing their boundaries. It would be incorrect to conclude that Christianity was about fear. That would be to miss the point.
First of all: Society is not at all secular - at least in most states. Maybe in Scandinavia and France. Elsewhere: NO.
And actually, I think Christianity is almost exclusively about exploiting peoples fears - mostly their primal fear: What happens, when I die - and it gives them a completely stupid answer. But people are so desperate in this matter, that they accept ANY positive answer. But it is bullshit - no one knows what "happens" to you after death and the most likely answer is simply NOTHING. But that is hard to accept.
(April 30, 2010 at 11:43 am)fr0d0 Wrote:
(April 30, 2010 at 5:57 am)Atheist_named_Christian Wrote: 3. Logic and religion are completely incommensurate, as religion builds on faith that is founded purely irrationally.
Whilst faith has to be irrational, the consideration of theology is entirely rational and logically coherent internally.
I fully agree here, but I also do not see how any theologist would come to a conclusion other than: There is no god. There is for sure no rational argument for the existence of god and the historical evidence for jesus is highly questionable (and if he existed he is for sure not god's son).
I came to the conclusion, that the more intelligent theologists surely know that religion is bullshit; but they just keep it up in order not to be rendered completely useless. It is almost certain that most high authorities of religious institutions do themselves not believe what they actually tell.
THE POPE DOES NOT BELIEVE IN GOD!
(April 30, 2010 at 12:33 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Why not? How about the following. Because: out of every single one of the reasons you so confidently gave above not one of them was evidence whatsoever that belief in God is actually true.

Completely true! But it happens quite often, that believers defend their ideas just by rendering them "useful". I think that this directly shows, that these people are not able to think logically as soon as matters get slightly more complicated.

And even these arguments can be easily proven wrong - religion is not at all useful to humanity. It's very much the opposite.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
A reason to believe? - by Paul the Human - April 29, 2010 at 12:58 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - April 29, 2010 at 1:12 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Paul the Human - April 29, 2010 at 1:16 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Welsh cake - April 29, 2010 at 3:58 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by EggSpurt - April 29, 2010 at 4:31 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by True Christian - April 29, 2010 at 4:36 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Paul the Human - April 29, 2010 at 4:47 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Ace Otana - April 29, 2010 at 5:16 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - April 29, 2010 at 6:05 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Ace Otana - April 29, 2010 at 6:16 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Godschild - April 29, 2010 at 11:52 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by theVOID - April 30, 2010 at 12:14 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Godschild - April 30, 2010 at 11:57 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Xyster - May 2, 2010 at 2:07 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Ace Otana - April 30, 2010 at 3:16 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Edwardo Piet - April 30, 2010 at 12:33 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by campenney - May 3, 2010 at 10:46 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by tavarish - May 3, 2010 at 11:22 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 4, 2010 at 2:43 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - April 29, 2010 at 4:45 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - April 29, 2010 at 6:50 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Ace Otana - April 29, 2010 at 6:58 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by KichigaiNeko - April 30, 2010 at 3:05 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - April 30, 2010 at 4:22 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Atheist_named_Christian - April 30, 2010 at 5:57 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - April 30, 2010 at 11:43 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Ace Otana - April 30, 2010 at 12:03 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Atheist_named_Christian - April 30, 2010 at 1:07 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by tavarish - April 30, 2010 at 2:05 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Zen Badger - April 30, 2010 at 9:17 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by KichigaiNeko - April 30, 2010 at 6:16 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by bozo - April 29, 2010 at 8:17 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Ace Otana - April 30, 2010 at 6:45 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - April 30, 2010 at 12:15 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Paul the Human - April 30, 2010 at 12:18 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Caecilian - April 30, 2010 at 7:28 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by KichigaiNeko - April 30, 2010 at 9:12 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by KichigaiNeko - May 2, 2010 at 9:19 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Minimalist - April 30, 2010 at 9:09 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Minimalist - May 1, 2010 at 2:20 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by padraic - May 1, 2010 at 2:55 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Caecilian - May 1, 2010 at 11:00 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Minimalist - May 1, 2010 at 8:22 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Godschild - May 2, 2010 at 1:20 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Watson - May 2, 2010 at 1:26 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Watson - May 2, 2010 at 2:09 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 2, 2010 at 4:14 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Edwardo Piet - May 3, 2010 at 5:16 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2010 at 7:03 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Paul the Human - May 2, 2010 at 4:23 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by The_Flying_Skeptic - May 2, 2010 at 4:31 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 2, 2010 at 7:22 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Edwardo Piet - May 3, 2010 at 7:09 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Violet - May 3, 2010 at 7:19 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2010 at 7:41 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Watson - May 3, 2010 at 11:57 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by tavarish - May 3, 2010 at 12:57 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Watson - May 3, 2010 at 2:52 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by tavarish - May 3, 2010 at 4:51 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Thor - May 3, 2010 at 3:38 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Autumnlicious - May 3, 2010 at 3:46 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Edwardo Piet - May 3, 2010 at 4:20 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2010 at 4:30 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Edwardo Piet - May 3, 2010 at 7:43 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2010 at 8:05 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Edwardo Piet - May 3, 2010 at 8:09 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2010 at 9:11 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Edwardo Piet - May 3, 2010 at 12:11 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2010 at 4:08 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Paul the Human - May 3, 2010 at 4:33 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2010 at 4:51 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Paul the Human - May 3, 2010 at 5:02 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Edwardo Piet - May 4, 2010 at 5:00 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 4, 2010 at 8:09 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Paul the Human - May 3, 2010 at 9:33 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2010 at 10:16 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Paul the Human - May 3, 2010 at 10:19 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2010 at 10:44 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by Paul the Human - May 3, 2010 at 11:02 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2010 at 3:42 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Paul the Human - May 3, 2010 at 3:50 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Caecilian - May 3, 2010 at 1:37 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Paul the Human - May 3, 2010 at 3:03 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Watson - May 3, 2010 at 3:09 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Minimalist - May 3, 2010 at 3:11 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Watson - May 3, 2010 at 3:12 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Minimalist - May 3, 2010 at 3:14 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Watson - May 3, 2010 at 3:14 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Minimalist - May 3, 2010 at 3:17 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Watson - May 3, 2010 at 3:19 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Minimalist - May 3, 2010 at 4:22 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Paul the Human - May 3, 2010 at 3:17 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Autumnlicious - May 3, 2010 at 3:22 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2010 at 5:21 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Paul the Human - May 3, 2010 at 5:24 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 3, 2010 at 5:54 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Minimalist - May 3, 2010 at 6:49 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Edwardo Piet - May 4, 2010 at 8:36 am
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 4, 2010 at 3:34 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Watson - May 4, 2010 at 3:37 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Edwardo Piet - May 5, 2010 at 12:40 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by tavarish - May 5, 2010 at 12:43 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by Edwardo Piet - May 5, 2010 at 12:51 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by tavarish - May 5, 2010 at 2:10 pm
RE: A reason to believe? - by fr0d0 - May 5, 2010 at 2:53 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  A question about Dawkins enemies of reason documentary Quill01 3 698 April 17, 2022 at 5:25 pm
Last Post: Belacqua
  The reason religion is so powerful Macoleco 344 33653 June 30, 2021 at 11:43 am
Last Post: Abaddon_ire
  Reason Jesus must have been a real person mrj 74 12920 March 5, 2021 at 6:44 am
Last Post: arewethereyet
  "How God got started", how god belief + basic reason + writing -> modern humans? Whateverist 26 8093 October 15, 2017 at 12:12 pm
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  Look i don't really care if you believe or don't believe Ronia 20 8812 August 25, 2017 at 4:28 am
Last Post: ignoramus
  Another Reason Christians are Dangerous Rhondazvous 49 9460 February 5, 2017 at 8:55 am
Last Post: Mr Greene
Question Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”. theBorg 49 9931 August 27, 2016 at 12:25 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  Atheists Have the Most Logical Reason for being Moral Rhondazvous 24 8191 January 22, 2016 at 6:49 pm
Last Post: Reforged
  The only important reason I'm more powerful than god. Silver 5 2157 November 13, 2015 at 4:24 am
Last Post: ignoramus
  The reason humans believe drfuzzy 31 6944 October 10, 2015 at 1:18 pm
Last Post: TheRocketSurgeon



Users browsing this thread: 9 Guest(s)