(June 6, 2014 at 8:40 am)mickiel Wrote: Well this list will be quite extensive, but I will begin with " Consciousness",
Uh oh!
Quote:Consciousness, the governor of our behavior. I do not believe that a thing like consciousness can be the result of random evolution;
First things first: what you believe means exactly nothing. The only thing that matters here is what you can demonstrate to be true, and as of right now, we have plenty of evidence that evolution occurs and that we are evolved animals, and no evidence for anything else. Therefore, just on the weight of the evidence, evolution is sufficient to produce consciousness.
The second thing is, you need to stop using the word random to describe evolution immediately, as it's not an entirely random process at all. The initial mutations are random, but once they come up against an environment with physical laws and so on, the ones that persist long enough to become a part of the gene pool are no longer random. So, quit it with the oft used theistic strawman version of evolution, please; it does nothing but disrespect all our intelligence, including yours.
Quote: although I believe in evolution, just not 100% of the common definition of the term, I think its a tool of god. Not a tool of magic luck. I think our consciousness was designed to continue to evolve, like many things God designed. And yes, I do figure that design requires a designer, or is evidence of one.
Again, what you figure isn't an indicator of what's true; in fact, that's an argument from ignorance. As to your last sentence, you'd need to demonstrate that there is a design for life before you go off on how designs need designers.
Quote:I do not think consciousness could be arrived at from things " lesser than itself", such as unconscious things like rocks, matter and chemicals; no. This fingers a god in my figuration.
This is the same argument from ignorance as before, but more importantly: "lesser," how? According to what standard? And why should the universe care about that standard at all?
Quote:How could we arrive at awareness as a result of magical physical unaware things combining slowly over billions of years? Even the flesh of humans and animals, which is another proof of God, how can we arrive at having flesh on bones, and then pop a thing like consciousness into it? This is asking more than facts and faith or belief, its asking us to accept miracles! Oh, all of a sudden individual bones decided to slowly grow into individual parts of the human body, like plants growing from the ground? Then each specific part had a mind of its own and injected itself into other parts and eventually got it right and formed a skeleton? Which then figured out 5 billion years later how to cloak itself in flesh?
Okay, stop. Now I have to ask: exactly what is your level of education about evolution? Because what you just posted was not only a completely insipid misrepresentation of what evolution is and how it works, but more importantly, you could find this stuff out with a little time on google!
Here's some info on the evolution of bones. That took me all of five seconds, which doesn't say a whole lot of good things about your interest in fact checking for correctness before you start talking. Evolution is a gradual process, it has none of this "oh, this stuff all just suddenly decided to grow here for no reason!" crap. Remember what I said before about insulting our intelligence?
Quote:And then somehow, a trillion years later, it DEVELOPED consciousness?
Your incredulity at a thing is not evidence against that thing. I also find it interesting that you'll be simply baffled by the idea that consciousness could develop naturally over many billions of years, and yet you have no trouble believing in a super powerful creative consciousness appearing whole out of nothing, for no reason, and then building a universe. Are you honestly applying your own arguments against your god belief too, or are you just expecting that this'll only work one way?
Quote:Now I am being comical for sure, but you get the point. In my view, consciousness is " A spirit IN humans", which was put in the body by another conscious spirit; which again points me to a god. And that spirit is what consciousness is, its biblically defined as " The image of god", meaning consciousness. How is something physical, like nature or matter, going to produce a spirit thing like consciousness?
"In my view," nobody cares. What you believe isn't instantaneous fact because you believe it, and if you're not interested in providing evidence then we have no obligation to rebut you either. Do you have anything more substantial than a list of things you believe?
Quote:That is like saying that dead things can produce life. Which I think is another proof of god, only consciousness can birth consciousness , only life can produce life; only a human can birth a human; we are not continuous with the idiot hierarchy of speechless apes.
How do you know any of what you just said? Knowledge is demonstrated, not just asserted, so... how do you know?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!