RE: 3 Questions For Believers (A work in progress.)
June 29, 2014 at 4:01 pm
(This post was last modified: June 29, 2014 at 4:09 pm by Lek.)
(June 28, 2014 at 11:47 pm)Irrational Wrote: Lek, how do you know this isn't some bias speaking? Such as confirmation bias?
By the way, thanks for taking the time to respond and being respectful. I hope I've come off as being respectful towards you as well.
There is a bias involved. Once I've established that there is a God and he's involved in my life, then I will attribute certain things to him. I don't call it circular reasoning. In science, once we establish one fact, we can use that as a point for determining other facts. I'll make a concession here - I have doubts about my beliefs and experiences, and always have. I think any christian who doesn't possess doubts, at least from time, is not being honest with him or herself. I won't speak for others here, but for me it's a leap of faith. I've found throughout my life that you usually have to make a decision, with some doubt present, and run with it or else you'll go nowhere. As far as being respectful - thanks and same to you.
(June 29, 2014 at 12:15 am)Rhythm Wrote: Right, I get that, but again, -before you believed- would any of this have been sufficient evidence to you? Does it meet the standard of evidence you have applied to all other claims, the standard that you use everyday. The standard of evidence that you ostensibly possessed, before....you believed?
Right now, you are essentially stating the definition of special concessions, special pleading. I doubt that your beliefs are founded upon special pleading (even if the only claims you feel comfortable with are)...and I know that what you're expressing to me here is textbook theology....so it occurs to me that while you may be reciting the theology (as you feel compelled to do - by belief-) there is likely to be a more elaborate and well constructed base upon which all of this is standing. It's speculation, but very favorable speculation of an ordinary sort - I hope you don't mind.
(course, I can't be too gentle can I. Doesn't "I believe that these things are from god because I believe in god, and I believe in god because I believe these things are from god" sound a tad bit too circular to you?)
First of all, I appreciate your concern, but don't worry about being gentile with me. I did make a comment about showing respect to each other, but that doesn't mean don't hit hard. What I meant was like this. I could say to you "I completely disagree and I think you're totally wrong - here's why." Or I could say "I think you're totally wrong and, by the way you and all atheists are idiots." As soon as I've said that, I've lost your respect and ended any possibility of a profitable discussion. As far as hitting me with your best punch - I can take that (I hope!).
Before I believed as I do now this would not have been sufficient evidence for me to think that it was anything but chance. I was raised as a catholic, but it never clicked, and I was living against how I was taught. Once I believed in God working in my life, then it gave me another option to consider about these experiences that I didn't have before. This is probably not the greatest analogy but I think it will work. When I was younger if I wanted to know what kind of fuel a certain car runs on I would consider gasoline or diesel. If it was now, because I'm now aware of alternative power sources, I'd also consider electric, solar or whatever. So I'm not believing these experiences are directly from God solely because I believe in him, but that is a factor I consider. Also, I don't believe in God because these things occurred, but rather because I opened myself to him and he came to me. This may be textbook christianity, but it's true textbook christianity.
(June 29, 2014 at 2:52 am)Purplundy Wrote: A good starting question would be "What do you believe?" instead of making assumptions about something like religion.
I believe that there is good in the universe, that and that people think of ways to identify and bring that good upon themselves, some calling it 'God' and writing books about it like the Torah to share with other people.
I believe that some theories concerning this 'good' have been misguided or rooted in the darker human nature.
I also think that there was a Jewish rabbi who was more accurate in answering the question of what is good and so I subscribe to his teachings and follow his advice.
So, "The needy are human beings deserving of your help?" Yeah. I know for a fact it's true. And only FOX News would think otherwise.
So do you believe that there are other faiths that are paths to God without the atoning sacrifice of Jesus?
