A discussion around family table.

[Scented Nectar]

The 10 commandments were given to a people who needed rules to live by after emerging from slavery to the Egyptians.

Why wouldn't God have given them perfected rules then? Why give them defective ones? I'm really beginning to doubt this god's skills you know. Why didn't he do it right the first time? And please don't say it was in context for the time. Injustice and cruelty are never ok just because of what year it happens to be. That's insane.

We are not 'under' the rules but liberated 'by' them.

No. Rules are a restriction of freedom. When it's a good and just rule, it restricts only the freedom to harm others like in murder or theft. When it's a bad rule, like your god's rule against thinking nice thoughts about other gods, that also is a restriction of freedom, but an injust restriction. so, just or not, it's still a restriction of a freedom. How on earth does following your god's rules liberate? Are you referring to the freedom from being penalized should you not have followed the rules?

Nah, too much work, and anyways, I think you know full well it's all there.

No, I know it isn't there. Hence the request.

Nah, still too much work to go find quotes and chapter references. I'm content with you pretending that the stuff in the bible isn't there and that I'm making it up.

See the bible says it doesn't matter if your umbrella has holes. you're still forgiven. Pretty nice huh?

No, it's not nice. I did nothing wrong. What is there to forgive? Not only is that not nice, but it's fucking unpleasant. Some god gets all jealous that I partied in my thoughts with my brain fairies, threatens me with eternal torture, and then says he'll forgive me? What the fuck kind of creep would do that? You forgot to mention of course, that in order to get that oh so nice forgiveness, the victim must do some major apologizing/asskissing/agreement-to-start-worshipping, etc. If your god was going to end up forgiving everyone because he's not really such a mean guy as to torture people forever, why would there even be the hell you believe exists? Is hell a metaphor meant to keep us humans in line since we are too stupid to understand common sense instead?

I don't think disobeying the many silly demands like worship are detrimental. Do you?

I'd say it's usually detrimental to others, but then that's changing the subject : you. It's not so much a demand, and a natural response to give credit where it's due. If a person was all take and no give, I guess you'd consider them poorly. Same applies here... should you be considered favourably or unfavourably?

Please prove how me not worshipping your god is detrimental to others around me. As for giving credit, why? If your god proved to me that he made the universe and is instilling his cruel and unnecessary rules for me to live under, why should I let him know I give him credit for it, is he worried that I will claim it as my own? This is ridiculous. Remember also, that the xtian god does not just want acknowlegement of his feats, he also wants praise for them. Praise. About a cruel and nonsensical reward/punishment system. Come on, really! I'm not good at self delusion, but if I thought hell were real, I'd be scared enough to give it a good try. You bet I would think nice thoughts about him. Maybe I'd even try to masturbate about him! Nah, he's pretty ugly in every pic I've seen. I take that part back!

Is God counter natural? No

Belief/searching in explanations is quite natural, but the actual existance of your god is not. There is absolutely nothing in nature indicating the existance of any gods at all.

And this has relevance how?

In that you say God is natural. Since your god is not found in nature at all, well, you know...

"Actual existence" is a question of empirical knowledge. Only an idiot would require empirical knowledge of a non temporal entity. Is that you?

I must be, that is if being an idiot means I think you are completely saying the above as an excuse for having zero zip nadda zilch squat evidence, or even any indicators that any gods exist, much less your particular variation of one who needs one earth species to telepathically reassure him that he is the cat's pajamas.