I don't think you video was spammy at all.
Wow, a lot of stuff to respond to. I'll try to stick to just the questions. Firstly your youtube video. Without heaven or hell I would still thank and worship God for the opportunities he's given me, yes. I now don't fear God or expect reward, so neither really apply. My God doesn't expet me to deny my feelings, in fact my true feeling (when selfless) are required to follow God accurately. I do agree with his my own morals. They don't preclude me from my religion and are in line with Christianity. I don't love and worship dictators, or nut jobs. I think what you see as a threat, is not focused on as much worldwide, from the religions, as you've probably experienced in you local area (wherever that may be).
I'll assume you can webster for yourself.. so I'll give you my biblical standpoints on the following:
-What is worship? obeying not the "teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" (Matt. 15: 9). It can be public or private, acknowledging that someone or something else is greater, and worthy of striving towards.
-What is acceptance into the heart? to fully trust and pledge allgiance to in your heart (the original Greek pisteuo is a much better word)
-What is love? You're going to have to be more specific on this one if you want an answer
-What is belief? Mental acceptance of or conviction in the truth or actuality of something (common connotation implies with proof)
-but would your all loving god really torture people forever just because they were not able to think praises about him without faking it?
A God is not all loving in the sense you're using it. B. If God has a choice between torture and mercy.. it would probably depend on the individuals choices not God's whim
-Why would your god even need his emotions pandered to in such an immature way?
A. God doesn't need B. "pandering"
would be a choice from reverence by the prostrate, not out of requirement.
The Bible isn't perfect, but it is inspired
you must be thinking of the Qu'ran being a perfect holy book. I will conceed that a majority of Christians feel it is a perfect reflection of God's truth. A literal and fundamentalist approach I believe would be in the minority of the religio of Christianity as a whole, but I have no numbers for that. I personally tend to think of it as man's vain attempt to figure out God, after all, God didn't request we make the thing.
-do you think highly of his morals? Yes, he would be a moral "north pole" as it were.
-Do you worship him due to being truly infatuated and in love with him, or because you are ordered to? between those two choices I'd choose a although we probably have different meanings for the word love
-why is it given divine status among xtians? I don't know. I only give it slightly more status than a math professor gives his calculator.
-why do you believe the claims of magic inside? I don't believe in magic as you're using it now. Most, if not all, miracles have been/will be proven by scientific means to be naural aside from possibly resurrection. Theese natural signs were a more primitive man's signs that God was working in their lives. I still see God's hand in every drop of rain and bolt of lightning, every flower and face.
If you could quote a verse where it says if you question the Bible you will burn forever in hell it would be most helpfull. Being a Christian doesn't necessarily mean you cna't think for yourself and question those beliefs. Nor does being worshipfull require the complacency of a sheel tied to a tether as is commonly believed by atheists I've spoken with.
Perhaps you could explain to me your views on "About a cruel and nonsensical reward/punishment system." because I'm not seeing your perspective at all on that one.
-If your god was going to end up forgiving everyone because he's not really such a mean guy as to torture people forever, why would there even be the hell you believe exists?
Once again, he doesn't forgive everyone. I can't see, without major long term social evolution , the possiblity that every human will completely agree on an idea as complex as God. Hell exists, according to reveleations, as a place after the judgement day for the unqualified to go.
-Why wouldn't God have given them perfected rules then? Why give them defective ones?
God did Give us "perfect rules" which were then smashed out of frustration and anger, and we had to then generalize. We got that wrong, then Jesus came to give us the inside scoop. It's still our choice to follow those rules or not.
I agree rules are a restriction of freedom. Would you prefer no rules? Nature seems to prefer rules.
" the one they think their god had written through divine magical inspiration for them." Someone's delusion in believing God writes things down for us is none of my concern.
-So, you are saying that a person who focuses on their own survival and happiness and the real world around them instead of placating and reassuring an imaginary supermonster through telepathy that he is so wonderful, is deserving of eternal torture?????? No, I'm saying a wholly self-centered person, who's only happiness resides in rejecting all for ignorance, greed, or self-deciet is not wothy of getting an eternal "golden ticket" and gets to fend for themselves wherever they are.
-"It's only sad when someone blindly accepts everything as being second-guess-worthy just because they want to trust the source, without thinking as to whether they agree or not. Otherwise, feedback is great and certainly is a big part of personal change and development." I would also say it's sad when somone ony uses themselves as a source, always trusts in it and has no need to disagree with tihemselves. Luckily I think we both operate somewhere in the middle.
No getting away with calling it 'indirect'. Either the fucker made everything or he didn't. And how is being tortured forever integral to growth? There is no afterwards to forever. When does the godvictim apply such a horribly learned 'growth'? Do you really think that your god is a nice guy if he 'tests' his beloved children, knowing that many will fail, when the result of failing means the testees will be tortured forever???? WTF kind of sick creep are you worshipping?[/quote]
I don't sin is a creation for him to creat. It's the absense of God, therefore unless you can go grab a darkness-flashlight I think you're not getting it. God did create evil. Hell is for eternity, but that's after Hades and the judgement. Growth is for the living. I don't think testing me changes my opinion of whether he's "nice" or not. It's called evaluation of worth, checking of standards, looking after the development. Schools tests our kids.. does that make them less nice?
-"If you want to play the 'that part's not really real' game, then would you admit that maybe your god is not real either? Nothing in the bible saying that you are to see him as a real being, after all...."
I fully admit the possibility that God is not real I fully grant that I have no proofs of God's existence. I don't relaly like games myself.
"At the threat of eternal torture, there are probably quite a lot of immoral things I would do, like the immoral rules of biblegod. Everyone has a breaking point. The only god command I would not be able, as opposed to unwilling, to do would be anything involving thought, such as commands to love him, worship him (in the emotional rather than recited words meaning), etc."
If you would like to discuss your percieved immorality of God's commandments, perhaps that would be a great new thread.
Thank you for your earnestness in your questions, and your humor.
Wow, a lot of stuff to respond to. I'll try to stick to just the questions. Firstly your youtube video. Without heaven or hell I would still thank and worship God for the opportunities he's given me, yes. I now don't fear God or expect reward, so neither really apply. My God doesn't expet me to deny my feelings, in fact my true feeling (when selfless) are required to follow God accurately. I do agree with his my own morals. They don't preclude me from my religion and are in line with Christianity. I don't love and worship dictators, or nut jobs. I think what you see as a threat, is not focused on as much worldwide, from the religions, as you've probably experienced in you local area (wherever that may be).
I'll assume you can webster for yourself.. so I'll give you my biblical standpoints on the following:
-What is worship? obeying not the "teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" (Matt. 15: 9). It can be public or private, acknowledging that someone or something else is greater, and worthy of striving towards.
-What is acceptance into the heart? to fully trust and pledge allgiance to in your heart (the original Greek pisteuo is a much better word)
-What is love? You're going to have to be more specific on this one if you want an answer
-What is belief? Mental acceptance of or conviction in the truth or actuality of something (common connotation implies with proof)
-but would your all loving god really torture people forever just because they were not able to think praises about him without faking it?
A God is not all loving in the sense you're using it. B. If God has a choice between torture and mercy.. it would probably depend on the individuals choices not God's whim
-Why would your god even need his emotions pandered to in such an immature way?
A. God doesn't need B. "pandering"
would be a choice from reverence by the prostrate, not out of requirement.The Bible isn't perfect, but it is inspired
-do you think highly of his morals? Yes, he would be a moral "north pole" as it were.
-Do you worship him due to being truly infatuated and in love with him, or because you are ordered to? between those two choices I'd choose a although we probably have different meanings for the word love
-why is it given divine status among xtians? I don't know. I only give it slightly more status than a math professor gives his calculator.
-why do you believe the claims of magic inside? I don't believe in magic as you're using it now. Most, if not all, miracles have been/will be proven by scientific means to be naural aside from possibly resurrection. Theese natural signs were a more primitive man's signs that God was working in their lives. I still see God's hand in every drop of rain and bolt of lightning, every flower and face.
If you could quote a verse where it says if you question the Bible you will burn forever in hell it would be most helpfull. Being a Christian doesn't necessarily mean you cna't think for yourself and question those beliefs. Nor does being worshipfull require the complacency of a sheel tied to a tether as is commonly believed by atheists I've spoken with.
Perhaps you could explain to me your views on "About a cruel and nonsensical reward/punishment system." because I'm not seeing your perspective at all on that one.
-If your god was going to end up forgiving everyone because he's not really such a mean guy as to torture people forever, why would there even be the hell you believe exists?
Once again, he doesn't forgive everyone. I can't see, without major long term social evolution , the possiblity that every human will completely agree on an idea as complex as God. Hell exists, according to reveleations, as a place after the judgement day for the unqualified to go.
-Why wouldn't God have given them perfected rules then? Why give them defective ones?
God did Give us "perfect rules" which were then smashed out of frustration and anger, and we had to then generalize. We got that wrong, then Jesus came to give us the inside scoop. It's still our choice to follow those rules or not.
I agree rules are a restriction of freedom. Would you prefer no rules? Nature seems to prefer rules.
" the one they think their god had written through divine magical inspiration for them." Someone's delusion in believing God writes things down for us is none of my concern.
-So, you are saying that a person who focuses on their own survival and happiness and the real world around them instead of placating and reassuring an imaginary supermonster through telepathy that he is so wonderful, is deserving of eternal torture?????? No, I'm saying a wholly self-centered person, who's only happiness resides in rejecting all for ignorance, greed, or self-deciet is not wothy of getting an eternal "golden ticket" and gets to fend for themselves wherever they are.
-"It's only sad when someone blindly accepts everything as being second-guess-worthy just because they want to trust the source, without thinking as to whether they agree or not. Otherwise, feedback is great and certainly is a big part of personal change and development." I would also say it's sad when somone ony uses themselves as a source, always trusts in it and has no need to disagree with tihemselves. Luckily I think we both operate somewhere in the middle.
Quote:quote] God did create evil. Sin is simply a rejection of God, that's not something he created, unless you mean indirectly by giving us choice. God also created the devil and uses him to test us.. that's biblical.. why would I ever assume anything different. Who are theese people you're calling Christians? I don't think God wants to get rid of evil.. I think it's integral to growth?
No getting away with calling it 'indirect'. Either the fucker made everything or he didn't. And how is being tortured forever integral to growth? There is no afterwards to forever. When does the godvictim apply such a horribly learned 'growth'? Do you really think that your god is a nice guy if he 'tests' his beloved children, knowing that many will fail, when the result of failing means the testees will be tortured forever???? WTF kind of sick creep are you worshipping?[/quote]
I don't sin is a creation for him to creat. It's the absense of God, therefore unless you can go grab a darkness-flashlight I think you're not getting it. God did create evil. Hell is for eternity, but that's after Hades and the judgement. Growth is for the living. I don't think testing me changes my opinion of whether he's "nice" or not. It's called evaluation of worth, checking of standards, looking after the development. Schools tests our kids.. does that make them less nice?
-"If you want to play the 'that part's not really real' game, then would you admit that maybe your god is not real either? Nothing in the bible saying that you are to see him as a real being, after all...."
I fully admit the possibility that God is not real I fully grant that I have no proofs of God's existence. I don't relaly like games myself.
"At the threat of eternal torture, there are probably quite a lot of immoral things I would do, like the immoral rules of biblegod. Everyone has a breaking point. The only god command I would not be able, as opposed to unwilling, to do would be anything involving thought, such as commands to love him, worship him (in the emotional rather than recited words meaning), etc."
If you would like to discuss your percieved immorality of God's commandments, perhaps that would be a great new thread.
Thank you for your earnestness in your questions, and your humor.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
