A discussion around family table.

[Watson]

It does say that the Bible is a metaphor...in a metaphorical way.

Oh stop, you're killing me!!!! I have no response to this.

You don't, do you?

You must read into it to actually see and understand the metaphor. I have told you, the Bible is written in such a way as to allude to a metaphor. That's how you recognize metaphors, you know. Again, when you read a book, do you discern every single character's views to be that of the author? If so, you must have a very negative view of some authors...

If the book is presented as nonfiction, then yes, I figure that what is stated as fact is also part of the authour's view on the matter. Especially when the nonfictional book directly tells people to do horrible crimes without any 'just kidding' disclaimers.

The 'nonfiction' element is the metaphor. The lessons that the Bible is preaching are real life lessons which can be applied to anyone's lifestyle; the stories themselves are simply metaphors for how God works, and don't necessarily have to be true, real life events.

Say a book is about a species of lizards that take over the planet, but the underlying theme is a metaphor for communism. Do you simply read the book as being about a species of lizards that take over the planet, or do you read deeper, the way you are supposed to with books, and find the underlying communism metaphor?

If the book is trying to factually state that lizards are indeed trying to take over the planet, then I really have no really to suspect it's really the communists who are causing problems this time. It's those lizards I'll be suspicious of.

The book is not trying to factually state that lizards are trying to take over the world; it is, however, factually stating that communists are a threat and a problem, through the use of a metaphor that readers can relate to.

The Bible is the same way. A story promoting a factual lifestyle and it's application to life, through use of metaphorical stories that the reader can relate to.

And I do believe in the stuff written in the Bible- not as literal stories, but as lessons meant to be read and learned from. I believe in the lessons themselves, because reading deeper, they are awfully important life lessons, most of them. Some followers, the smart ones, will be saying this. You are trying to argue with a fundamentalists perspective of the Bible, when that is not what I am giving you at all.

I have to take the bible rulebook as the default. If you feel that the fundie xtians are the closest to following that rulebook/claimbook, it has nothing to do with my decision to stick with the official thing as being the most correct interpretation available to what was originally meant at the start of this religion of yours (despite of course, all its various authours and retranslations). The fact that you have somehow gotten some personal growth from this story collection is also just incidental or accidental or something. The book and the religion based on it are being touted as the truth right from within the book itself.

And from what I have experienced, the book and the religion based on it are the truth. Not the stories themselves, of course, but the lessons the Bible imparts have proven to be quite helpful, truthful, and beneficial to me. This is not incidental or accidental, and you cannot simply write it off as such.

Again, it says they are metaphors by the self-evident nature of metaphors. You do not need to be told the book about lizards taking over the world is a metaphor for communism- it simply is a metaphor for communism.

I actually WOULD need to be told that, especially if the book is being presented as nonfiction. The next time one of those wacky conspiracy nuts talks about the queen of England being a secret alien lizard person, I will now know, but only thanks to you telling me, that she is a secret alien lizard COMMIE person. I was fooled. I thought she was a card carrying monarchist!

Again, the story within the book itself about lizards is not being presented as nonfiction; the metaphor for communists, since commies do in fact exist, is.

You claim that if the entire Bible is metaphorical, then that must mean God is metaphorical, too. Not so. The Bible is a series of stories which are metaphors for God and His lessons and His nature.

How did you come to that conclusion? Where does it state that the stories are metaphors but the magical invisible god is really real?

I have observed God in real life and the nature in which He works. When I read the Bible, I find it to be pretty accurate in it's metaphorical depiction of God and His lessons. I came to the conclusion that He Himself is not metaphorical on my own; and I came to the conclusion that the Bible is a series of metaphors for Him because, well, obviously it was not written by God. It was written by men, about God.

You seem to think Christianity, Christian beliefs, and the Christian God all must come from the Bible. Again, not so.

No. The original roots to the stories have been shown to be older than the old testament, so therefore some elements predate not only xtianity, but also judaism and the old testament. The elements specific to the branch of the abrahamic religions called christianity though, such as some guy named Jesus really being a god, do all come from the bible. It's good though that you seem to be going outside of the bibles for finding your way in life, since the bible is a very cruel and immoral book in my opinion.

I do not find the book to be cruel and immoral at all; there are certain parts within that do, indeed, reflect the time period in which it was written, but those parts are innaccurate according to my understanding of God.

Yes, certain stories and certain parts of the Bible predate all of the religions which are an off-shoot of Judaism and the Old testament, etc., etc. I see this as further proof of my point. It illustrates that, even before the Bible was written in it's original form, people were passing down stories and allegoies about how God and His nature worked and existed in our world.

My faith is very heavily based on my interpretation and observation of the real world. My interpretation of the Bible then, too, is based on what I have learned from the real world. I also base my knowledge of God on experiences and observations made from the real world- at least, my subjective experience of it[the real world].

To each their own, but rather than faith in things that don't even have any indications they might exist, much less evidence, I prefer to base my belief on what actually IS, things that are REAL.

And to me, there are many, many indications that God exists. God gives you exactly what you want to make of life; you perceive a world without God, you get a world that appears to have no God. You perceive a world that does have a God, and you get a world which reveals itself to have proof of God everywhere.

I am indeed truly in love with God.

Wow. To the point of worship? Stalkable, obsessed worship?

Worship, yes, because I know of God's power and His nature. Obviously not in a creepy, stalker kind of way.

What other than that or maybe Stockholm's syndrome could make you even LIKE someone with the sociopathic morals of the xtian god? Yikes!!!!

Again, as I stated before; the morals alluded to in the Bible are not sociopathic or evil, if you read deeper into the stories and find the true meaning below the surface of the story. To do this, I must apply my real-life experiences to the Bible, and my observations of the world around me.

You seem to think that means I am speaking about a literal Biblical interpretation of God, and I state a third time: not so. To understand my beliefs and my faith, you must first understand God. Something Atheists are simply incapable of doing.

If you don't believe in biblegod, then I'll duck out of this conversation, since your personal opinion of whatever your god is supposed to be, is totally unknowable to me. I thought you were some sort of christian.

I am a Christian. I believe in the teachings of Christianity.

I believe it is inspired by God; I don't believe it is written by God. I will try to rephrase this: the way a movie can be 'inspired by true events', so to is the Bible inspired by God. It is a book written about God by men. They may not portray everything accurately, they may not protray everything honestly; but what they are attempting to portray is still something they believe in and have encountered- somethig they have been inspired by.

A movie inspired by true events usually doesn't add magical elements and give horrible orders to commit crimes, unless of course the real life character was magical and immoral, but whatever...

If the movie inspired by true events is trying to relate a real life character who is very nearly incomprehensible in uncertain terms, then it is easier to convey the story through allegory and metaphor than it is through telling the real tale. No one will understand the real tale except those who were involved and those who have had similar experiences.

I hope that makes more sense.

Not really. It clearly displays the nonsense of it all. Leave the cult, christians. The hell threat is not real, and I think that fear of it is what keeps you from accepting reality, 'just in case it's real' or something.

That 'or something' at the end damns your argument. You can't figure out why anyone would be Christian, so you just apply some preconceived notion of what you presume to be human nature to the situation, and leave it at that.

I have found Hell to be very real, by the way. I have lived it, and it is quite terrible. But again, you still have no understanding of what Hell or Heaven truly are, so it is quite impossible to discuss them with you until you do.

And once more; any right-minded Christian or theist will tell you that the Bible is not to be applied to real life; life is to be applied to the Bible, and then and only the is the Bible supposed to be re-applied to life. Because then and only then will the Bible begin to make sense. Any right-minded Christian or theist will tell you that the Bible is a collection of allegorical and metaphorical stories meant to embody God and spread His teachings in ways that we humans can understand. It is a book about God; not of God, at least not exactly.

Oh no, not the 'well, they're not real christians like I am' excuse. Surely not that one. I give up.

Well, the definition of being a Christian is to be Christ-like. That is why it is calld Christianity. So, yes, anyone not acting Christ-like is not a real Christian in the simplest sense of the word.