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About other gods-question for theists
#97
RE: About other gods-question for theists
(July 5, 2014 at 6:26 pm)Lek Wrote:
(July 5, 2014 at 5:21 pm)Jenny A Wrote: With regard to miracles, like the virgin birth, I am extremely skeptical, because extra ordinary events require extra ordinary proof. The Bible with it's 30 year later anonymous authors does not nearly reach that level of proof.

Are you saying all the authors of the bible are anonymous? Why?

Because other than tradition there is no reason to think otherwise. The first five books of the OT are attributed to Moses, but contextual analysis (including the fact that the last book tells of his death) make it clear that they were written, compiled, and piece together over a long period of time. Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers were probably put together in about 450 BCE. You don't need a degree to see some of what the scholars are saying here. Notice the duplicate stories in Genesis that show more than one source. Notice also that there seem to be two gods in Genesis one unseeable and incorporeal, and one who walks on Earth. Most duplicates show both gods. They have different names in Hebrew too. The scholarship on this isn't new.

Deuteronomy has a different linguistic style and a single source whereas the first four books appear to have four separate sources.

I could go I but I refer you to the wikapedia article on Bible Authorship

Regarding the gospels it says:

Quote:The gospels (and Acts) are anonymous, in that none of them name an author.[70] Whilst the Gospel of John might be considered somewhat of an exception, because the author refers to himself as "the disciple Jesus loved" and claims to be a member of Jesus' inner circle,[71] most scholars today consider this passage to be an interpolation (see below).

Paul actually wrote most the the Epistles though.

If you have any interest in this I suggest the following books: Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Friedman (who is a belieiver if that matters to you); Who Wrote the New Testament, The Making of the Christian Myth, by Burton Mack (obviously not Christian). There are a host of other good possibilities many of them in Kindle format.

(July 5, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Lek Wrote:
(July 5, 2014 at 7:23 pm)Jenny A Wrote: was born of a virgin, God became man, his birth was
foretold by Isaiah seven hundred years before it
happened, Joseph believed it, and we believe it."

So the only way you would believe this is by going back in time and doing a physical examination of Mary, talk to God in person and interview Joseph. I guess the early christians weren't smart to verify that Jesus existed and worked miracles even though they were his contemporaries, before being run out of town by the Jewish leaders and used as torches and lion food under the rule of Nero?

Considering the number of other miracles by other gods they believed in during the time period, no I wouldn't take even purported eye witnesses testimony for that (and that we don't have)---especially not since they waited a good 30 to 60 years to write it down. Do you believe people are visited by UFO's because there's actually better evidence for that. But it's better only because it's contemporary and you can ask them about it.

Or to put it most bluntly: If you wouldn't take my daughter's word for it that she's a pregnant virgin, why would you take the work of someone writing 60 years after the event that another girl was a pregnant virgin?

It's a weird sort of miracle anyway, since it so very hard to prove. How did anyone know Mary was a virgin?
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god.  If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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Messages In This Thread
About other gods-question for theists - by vodkafan - June 20, 2014 at 7:32 am
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by vodkafan - June 20, 2014 at 10:50 am
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - June 23, 2014 at 9:20 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - June 23, 2014 at 9:38 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - June 23, 2014 at 11:12 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - June 23, 2014 at 11:22 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - June 24, 2014 at 3:27 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - June 24, 2014 at 7:41 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by JuliaL - June 23, 2014 at 8:58 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Zidneya - June 21, 2014 at 1:27 am
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Zidneya - June 22, 2014 at 10:12 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Zidneya - June 23, 2014 at 8:30 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Zidneya - July 3, 2014 at 11:28 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - June 23, 2014 at 11:10 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - June 27, 2014 at 11:58 am
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Grandizer - June 27, 2014 at 12:06 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Minimalist - June 23, 2014 at 11:23 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Elskidor - June 27, 2014 at 12:20 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - June 27, 2014 at 1:57 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 1, 2014 at 12:33 am
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Dystopia - June 30, 2014 at 11:55 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 3, 2014 at 11:34 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 1, 2014 at 2:38 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - July 1, 2014 at 4:11 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - July 1, 2014 at 4:34 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 1, 2014 at 10:16 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - July 4, 2014 at 11:54 am
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by eyemixer - July 4, 2014 at 11:56 am
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - July 4, 2014 at 12:23 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 4, 2014 at 2:03 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - July 5, 2014 at 3:48 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 5, 2014 at 5:21 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - July 5, 2014 at 6:26 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 5, 2014 at 7:23 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - July 5, 2014 at 7:55 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 5, 2014 at 8:03 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 4, 2014 at 12:01 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - July 4, 2014 at 12:52 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Silver - July 4, 2014 at 12:57 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - July 4, 2014 at 1:04 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - July 4, 2014 at 2:51 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 4, 2014 at 4:05 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 4, 2014 at 4:37 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 5, 2014 at 1:44 am
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 5, 2014 at 11:23 am
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 5, 2014 at 2:07 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - July 5, 2014 at 9:13 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 5, 2014 at 10:08 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - July 5, 2014 at 11:20 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 6, 2014 at 1:57 am
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - July 6, 2014 at 11:55 am
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - July 5, 2014 at 11:42 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Lek - July 5, 2014 at 11:49 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 7, 2014 at 4:30 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 7, 2014 at 11:43 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by Jenny A - July 8, 2014 at 2:32 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by ShaMan - July 8, 2014 at 2:50 pm
RE: About other gods-question for theists - by ignoramus - July 10, 2014 at 10:55 pm

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