RE: Chaos theory
July 14, 2014 at 7:04 pm
(This post was last modified: July 14, 2014 at 7:11 pm by Rhizomorph13.)
(July 14, 2014 at 6:24 pm)Chuck Wrote:
(July 14, 2014 at 6:24 pm)Chuck Wrote: Can you cite a few examples of universe following any rules which prevents large effects from small stimuli?
Not really, just my own observation. I didn't realize I was entering into a formal debate.Even if I were I'm merely rejecting the claim that small stimuli could have a large effect, such as the butterfly effect. Perhaps I could have worded it better.
(July 14, 2014 at 6:24 pm)Chuck Wrote: What if you drop a small pebble atop a unstable cornice of accummulated snow above a steep embankment next to the lake, the pebble triggers an avalanch, which pounds into the lake, and there is a giant wave on the other side.
The more you close off a system, the more the changes to the system become restricted by what you bring into and out of the system. You probably imagined a closed lake with nothing interacting with it except a pebble dropped into it. Obviously the total amount of energy that is available to cause any reaction in the lake is that which is carried by the pebble, so no giant wave would appear out of ether where there is no available energy to power it.
But the more a system have room to interact with other elements around it besides what you would bring into and out of it, the more room is there for your stimulus to trigger a much larger input or outtake from the system than you intend. As a result the system can behave disproportionately violently compare to the small amount of initial stimuli.
Well that would be a thing much like a mouse releasing a mousetrap. Hardly a good example.
(July 14, 2014 at 7:04 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Human existence.
The specific genetic makeup of an organism that lives maybe 80 years and has the intelligence to interact to and mold its environment is hanging on a nano-trigger. The fluid dynamics of the semen, including the pulse strength of the vein in the penis, the specific timings of the vagina's secretions and movements, etc, are so hopelessly complex that you could NEVER fully encapsulate the "initial conditions."
And that's just the moment of conception that determines the DNA. It doesn't even include things like significant events, the effect of gravity of the moon (and maybe of other planets in orbit) etc. etc.
Is this ultimately deterministic. A big-M MAYBE. Is all this deterministic in the sense that we can make meaningful predictions about how a fetus will develop, and what kind of life it will have when it graduates high school. No. Completely impossible.
Good answer, I like the part where it didn't include me placing a noose around my neck. I believe in a deterministic universe. I don't think we will ever be able to compute a 100% true model of even small sections of reality.
