RE: WHY was Jesus cricified?
August 1, 2014 at 10:17 am
(This post was last modified: August 1, 2014 at 10:20 am by RobbyPants.)
(July 31, 2014 at 2:28 pm)alpha male Wrote: Because God's sense of justice requires it.
So, God's sense of justice requires him to sacrifice a third of himself to another third of himself to appease that second third, and then to resurrect that first third and bring him back to heaven?
Weird. Seems like a good paradigm for atonement and justice.
(July 31, 2014 at 2:28 pm)alpha male Wrote: How does saying "I'm sorry" atone for your wrongs to one person, but not to another? How does paying a fine to the state atone for going through a stop sign? How does prison time atone for anything anyway - former convicts are now free people?
ETA: How does one atone for murder?
If my child A hits child B and I tell child B to simply forgive A, does that mean that I must likewise do so, and cannot punish A? If I do punish A, does that mean that B must also punish A in the same manner?
If a president pardons one criminal, why doesn't he simply pardon them all?
Is your god great, or not? Why do apologists always insist on answering these questions by comparing God to humans?
Do humans have the ability to atone for the sin of others by committing a sacrifice? Does God have the ability to atone for the sin of others by committing a sacrifice?
If the answers to these questions are different, then your previous questions are moot and off-topic.
(July 31, 2014 at 3:03 pm)frasierc Wrote: Jesus isn't just one person paying for another person's sin. Though he remains divine he becomes a human to represent the whole of humanity in bearing their physical death (dying on the cross) and spiritual death (experiencing abandonment from the Father when he says ' Father why have you forsaken me'). Which should have been borne by humanity because of the choices of Adam (the first human representative).
Jesus is a sacrifice - because he died. But if he dies only our slate is wiped clean but we're not at one with God. In his resurrection he was a 'first fruits' of a new humanity so that we may share in his new humanity which is everlasting relationship with God i.e. atonement - we become one with God. So atonement requires Jesus death, resurrection and ascension.
So, how does this mechanism work?
He symbolically pays everything while functionally paying nothing to somehow erase the real sins? That sounds a lot like me paying for a mansion with a giant novelty check that isn't actually worth any money.
