Split Brain Experiment and the Soul

[tackattack]

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It doesn't follow. In the instances I read (at least half) and my personal experiences with amnesia, the person still had a self-identity or multiple self-identities. I don't think the I can be absent from the definition of self-aware. As long as we are aware of ourselves as different than what we percieve outside of us I can't see when the I would go away.

I think there is spectrum of amnesia and you experienced a temporary amnesia. Certainly you would not argue that our identity is independent of memory.

Counter- He defeated this himself by the next sentence. 'we know precisely which brain regions control many fundamental aspects of human consciousness.' It's an asolutest statement that begs the question. We don't know everyhing about the brain therefore we don't know all aspects of the mind to come to said conclusion.

Well, there is no 'brain theory' as far as I know, but there is enough evidence for the relationship between thought and matter to say that thought is dependent on matter and as someone else said here 'the mind' is high-level way of talking about very physical interactions. see 'high-level languages in Computing'

Premise 4- "After all, if there is an immortal soul, why would it be subordinate to flawed biology? If there is a god who is fair and just, and who punishes or rewards us for our actions, he would not set things up so that these actions can be dictated or altered by brain chemistry, genes, or other factors over which we have no control. Unless he is an unjust tyrant, he would make our actions the result of the individual's free choice. This is consistent with the idea of consciousness arising from a spiritual soul not subject to the weaknesses of the physical body. "

Counter - He's assuming that the immortal trait in the soul is some grandeous thing preventing it from the effects upon it. The soul is just another way of calling the human self-identity, whether it exists beyond death or not is the question we're discussing. There have been cases of people coming out of a vegatative state, deep coma and even brain death and having perfectly normal lives, with their identiy intact. That in itself proved that the termination of brain function does not kill the identity of self, as in "my name is" or "I want/need...". Why should it be a temproary state and not eternal? The rest of the quote is just his personal bias and emotive language.

There are extreme cases of memory disorders, mental disorders, or brain damage that would affect a persons idea of their identity if not strip them entirely of being aware that they have an identity. Could you name some examples of people that have survived (or been misdiagnosed with) 'brain death'?

Premise 5- "Without memory, a person's identity is irrevocably altered. The effects of this condition are consistent with the materialist prediction that the mind is unified with the brain, but seem considerably more difficult to reconcile with dualism. "

There are plenty of other cases, but I'll use my own personal case as an example. I was diagnosed with temporary anterograde amnesia following a car accident I was in. My father arrived on the scene shortly after it happened and he recounted my words . I would repeat phrases like "What happened? and "I hope he's ok, can I check on him" which is perfectly in line with my personality and shows I have a distinct identity. I repeated this phrase for as long as I was conscious. That 24 hour block of memory is blank in my mind. I have reconstructed the events logically, but it's devoid of the depth of experience needed to relate it as an experience.Ok, so you're going to say "well you still had access to your distant memories". OK I can see that, let's take my grantmother. She had Alzheimer's disease and suffered a fall that left her completely devoid of any memory near the end of her life. She didn't recognize anyone or know where she was or why she was there or events in her life. She would still ask the orderly with a "hey you, could I get a soda" which clearly defines an self-awareness.

In the end of your rebuttal to the last 'premise', your example confuses 'identity' with 'self awareness'. Did you know that one of the unifying properties of life is 'response to stimuli'?

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No Ghosts In The Brain by Dr. PZ Myers http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...1227813170#

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1-The long term effect of my amnesia was obviously temporary. The type however, was anterograde. No I'm not arguing that our identity is independent of memory. Our identity is based off a great many sensory inputs. I am not however going to argue that our identity is based solely off of our memory which is wha your arguement infers.

2-"...enough evidence for the relationship between thought and matter to say that thought is dependent on matter.. " yes I completely agree, however the question is whether it rests solely in the material. The material is the best test for the type of evidence you're looking for. I'm assume you're a materialist. However from a materialist perspective, how would you possibly be able to accept anything other than material evidence?

3-Yes there are plenty that can affect the identity (split it, diminsh aspects of it) I'm not aware of any that would completely erradicate the identity without of course brain death (Which doesn't kill identity, imo). If you have specific examples please specify them.

4- I agree that sometimes brain death is a misdiagnosis, ony related to the higher functions of the brain.. but I don't think it's always. Here's the first one I came across http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html Many advancements have been done in suspended animation and use of the standstill operation.