(August 1, 2014 at 9:36 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: Alright, thanks for the answer.
If you assume there is no God, then it logically follows there is no sacrificial atonement of Christ. Based upon your assumption your conclusion follows. If there is no God, there is no sin (legal debt) against Him, therefore there is no atonement.
In the last two sentences you said that if you assume salvation to be true, and I fully understand that you don't, it is as nutty as a bag of hammers. If you assume that Bible is true (the biblical plan of salvation) then:
According to the Bible...
does God exist?
is sin a legal debt to God?
are you a sinner and thus legally in debt to God?
what is the punishment for the debt?
what is the payment for the debt?
if someone were to pay the debt for you, does that fit the definition of atonement? of sacrifice?
who has paid the debt for you?
is salvation the result of Christ's finished work on the cross to those who believe?
how nutty are hammers?
Where to begin? First of all I'm not sure why all crimes and misdemeanors would be a debt to god. There is an analogy in that in most countries all crimes are considered to be crimes against the state in that the state has an interest in maintaining the peace. But god appears to have taken an entirely hands off approach to peace keeping.
Assuming however that god is akin to the state for these purposes, the punishment of eternal suffering doesn't fit any crime any human could possibly commit. Eternal is a long, long time.
But that's mere quibble compared the idea that god would have to pay a debt owed to himself in order to excuse his debtors. That's simply nuts.-----You owe me twenty, but I'd like to forgive you so the only thing to do is burn one of my twenties, otherwise I can't let you off the hook. WTF?
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
