RE: On naturalism and consciousness
August 18, 2014 at 6:44 am
(This post was last modified: August 18, 2014 at 6:59 am by robvalue.)
I agree my response wasn't very good in answering the question as stated, so I'll go back and cross out the bits about free will, and update it with more relevant comments:
I feel the most likely case is that consciousness is an illusionary side effect of the working of brains (and perhaps other things, perhaps everything). I don't think it actually "exists" anywhere. If this is true, it kind of removes the whole question of where or what it is. I have no evidence for this of course, it's just what I feel. Awkwardly, the reverse also seems that it could be true, that consciousness is the only thing that "exists".
I guess I subscribe to solipsism in the extreme case, where even "I" (whatever part of me is not physically explained) am a figment of my own imagination. But this is useless in that it can never be used to prove anything, and I have to live as if I don't believe it. This subject messes with my head like no other, in that I can never be happy with what I think about it. What I have written above doesn't sound very convincing even to me, but it's the best I have for now.
The very ideas of existence and reality are ones which are hard to think about and harder to define, though. I think most scientists now accept that we can only analyze a version of "reality" as experienced through our filters, and that we can never see or test actual reality. I think with consciousness this is somehow doubly impossible, we cannot remove ourselves from it, we cannot break through the 4th wall.
But we shouldn't give up, and should continue to try and figure these things out. Below is the most amazing guy I have seen talk about the subject, for those who have not seen him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcR8-Sq8dZk
I feel the most likely case is that consciousness is an illusionary side effect of the working of brains (and perhaps other things, perhaps everything). I don't think it actually "exists" anywhere. If this is true, it kind of removes the whole question of where or what it is. I have no evidence for this of course, it's just what I feel. Awkwardly, the reverse also seems that it could be true, that consciousness is the only thing that "exists".
I guess I subscribe to solipsism in the extreme case, where even "I" (whatever part of me is not physically explained) am a figment of my own imagination. But this is useless in that it can never be used to prove anything, and I have to live as if I don't believe it. This subject messes with my head like no other, in that I can never be happy with what I think about it. What I have written above doesn't sound very convincing even to me, but it's the best I have for now.
The very ideas of existence and reality are ones which are hard to think about and harder to define, though. I think most scientists now accept that we can only analyze a version of "reality" as experienced through our filters, and that we can never see or test actual reality. I think with consciousness this is somehow doubly impossible, we cannot remove ourselves from it, we cannot break through the 4th wall.
But we shouldn't give up, and should continue to try and figure these things out. Below is the most amazing guy I have seen talk about the subject, for those who have not seen him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcR8-Sq8dZk
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum