(June 4, 2010 at 3:32 pm)tackattack Wrote: I don't think I have the perspective to correctly answer every instance. I'll give an example of what I think and give it my best shot. We'll continue your father analogy:
1- Father sets rules to follow (laws of nature, morality, forgiveness)
What are these "rules of morality"? Because even devout believers will disagree on what is and isn't moral.
Quote:and provides a home withing those rules. Child learns about his enviornment through trial and error (volcanoes go boom, nuclear waste is bad, killing is bad, breaking the rules makes life harder). When we're talking enviornemtal issues (natural disasters, mortality, etc.) we're still haven't become masters of our enviornment. In fact, we're quite toddler like in our destructive tendencies toward our enviornment.
This does nothing to answer the question why this deity allows natural disasters that kill and injure people, and destroy homes.
Quote:You're assuming that God see's death as a bad thing.
No, I'm saying that WE see death as a bad thing. Particularly when it is a young person or child.
Quote:From a transcendant perspective with eternity as your lifespan, that doesn't follow that mortal death is any different than a snake shedding it's first skin.
I have no reason to believe that there is anything beyond this life. Happy platitudes about death leading to something better mean nothing. Unless you have some evidence to indicate there is something after this life.
Quote:2-A premature death from an omniscient perspective could be preventative. Maybe they'll grow up to be a hitler,
This makes no sense. If this is true, then why did this deity allow Hitler to grow up? (Not to mention Stalin, Pol Pot, Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, etc, etc...)
Quote: Perhaps a lifetime of suffering would be worse than a relatively short life.
Sorry. Makes no sense. Again, this deity could eliminate someone's suffering. Why do you assume an early death or a lifetime of suffering are the only choices?
Quote:Perhaps the sheeddding of the mortal coil teaches others who are still alive to appreciate life more, to ease other's suffering, to provide for other's needs more actively.
Great. So this deity allows some children to suffer and die so that others can learn a lesson. Would you set one of your children on fire to teach your other children that you shouldn't play with gasoline and matches?
Quote:3- Let's use that same scenario and work on the interactions between several billion of those children..Children by nature are learning to overcome their instinctual self-serving survival instincts to form communities. We learn things like empathy and develop social structure. We identify laws which develop the whole and punish crimes. We learn that there are consequences for self serving problems (like crackheads making babies that are addicted to crack, deformed, etc.) and develop into a more mature society.
I don't quite understand what you're trying to say here.
Quote:I think a major point of contenction between atheism and theism is a willingness to accept there is more after we die.
The idea that there is "more after we die" is simply a notion with nothing to back it up. The thought that loved ones are happy in an eternal paradise is comforting, but it has no basis in reality. I must ask if you think Neanderthals are in heaven? What about our early human ancestors? They were more primate than human. At what point did humans become human enough that they were allowed into heaven?
Science flies us to the moon and stars. Religion flies us into buildings.
God allowed 200,000 people to die in an earthquake. So what makes you think he cares about YOUR problems?
God allowed 200,000 people to die in an earthquake. So what makes you think he cares about YOUR problems?