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Science, faith, and theists
#10
RE: Science, faith, and theists
(September 4, 2014 at 4:39 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: True as far as it goes, but this is hardly the whole story. Christian monks preserved the knowledge that was in accord (or at least not in conflict) with Christian teaching, and that knowledge only, and they didn't always do even that - there's a reason that translating the Bible into English got poor old Tyndale burnt alive.

No, that's precisely the point I was making - they preserved (and translated into Latin) a very broad spectrum of Greek philosophers among other writings. They preserved and translated many writings that were considered 'heretical'. Elsewhere in the Church Robert of Ketton translated the Q'Ran into Latin so scholars could have access. Certainly these 'heretical' writings had restricted access; they were for scholars not for the people, but these works were carefully preserved and studied.

One thing to remember about the Catholic Church is that it has never been, contrary to popular opinion, a great monolith controlled exclusively by the Pope and the Bishops. The Vatican has often been at odds with the monastics, and has frequently had a complex relationship with local political powers. Did the Church control Charlemagne, or did Charlemagne control the Church, for example. Many would say that Charlemagne firmly kept the Church in the place he wanted it. But the monasteries have often been outside of these conflicts (though they do get caught up from time to time, most notably with the dissolution of the monasteries under Henry VIII).

Tyndale's story is a complex one: he was killed (unjustly and savagely) at a time after Henry had separated the English Church from Rome and was quite open to an English translation. Henry's own approved translation, 'the Great Bible', was started two years before Tyndale's execution. Henry had the power to save Tyndale but didn't. Elsewhere, translations in the vernacular, such as Jacques Lefèvre's French translation had already come out; the opposition to bibles in the vernacular had passed by the time of Tyndale's death. The humanists had already won the argument by the time of Tyndale's execution. Though the story that Tyndale was killed for translating the bible into English is a neat little one; it doesn't fit the history of the time particularly well. Yes, he had to flee to work on the bible in English, but that was earlier. Much more likely is that Tyndale ultimately suffered for writing The Practyse of Prelates, an opposition to King Henry's divorce from Catherine of Aragon. A bible in English was one thing (King Henry VIII would welcome it, so long as he got to give his imprimatur). A priest saying that King Henry's divorce, and subsequent marriage to Anne Boleyn, was invalid was quite another.

I think it's also important to note that the Benedictine model eschews central control: each monastery is independent and did/does not take kindly to interference by the local secular bishops or by the Vatican. They remember the admonition of the desert fathers, to "Flee women and bishops" :-)
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Messages In This Thread
Science, faith, and theists - by Natachan - August 31, 2014 at 12:14 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 1, 2014 at 2:24 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Brian37 - September 4, 2014 at 7:29 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 4, 2014 at 7:50 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Brian37 - September 4, 2014 at 7:53 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 4, 2014 at 7:58 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Ben Davis - September 4, 2014 at 10:10 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 4, 2014 at 10:31 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Brian37 - September 4, 2014 at 10:35 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Ben Davis - September 4, 2014 at 11:32 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Minimalist - September 5, 2014 at 2:26 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Tonus - September 4, 2014 at 12:21 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Minimalist - September 1, 2014 at 2:29 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Natachan - September 3, 2014 at 3:36 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Surgenator - September 3, 2014 at 4:16 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 4, 2014 at 3:44 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Diablo - September 3, 2014 at 3:47 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 3, 2014 at 7:33 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 4, 2014 at 4:39 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 4, 2014 at 5:23 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Cato - September 4, 2014 at 6:25 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 4, 2014 at 7:10 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Cato - September 4, 2014 at 2:17 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Brian37 - September 4, 2014 at 7:58 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by The Grand Nudger - September 4, 2014 at 10:37 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 4, 2014 at 10:42 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Dawsonite - September 4, 2014 at 3:29 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by The Grand Nudger - September 4, 2014 at 10:46 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 4, 2014 at 10:59 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by The Grand Nudger - September 4, 2014 at 11:02 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 4, 2014 at 11:12 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by The Grand Nudger - September 4, 2014 at 11:12 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 4, 2014 at 11:15 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by The Grand Nudger - September 4, 2014 at 11:19 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Little lunch - September 4, 2014 at 11:37 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 4, 2014 at 12:06 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Diablo - September 4, 2014 at 12:11 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Diablo - September 4, 2014 at 3:23 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Diablo - September 4, 2014 at 4:16 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Brian37 - September 4, 2014 at 12:16 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Ben Davis - September 5, 2014 at 8:26 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 4, 2014 at 2:29 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by The Grand Nudger - September 4, 2014 at 2:43 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by FreeTony - September 4, 2014 at 2:47 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by The Grand Nudger - September 4, 2014 at 2:54 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 4, 2014 at 2:57 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 5, 2014 at 1:26 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Dawsonite - September 5, 2014 at 7:42 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Cato - September 5, 2014 at 8:41 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Dawsonite - September 5, 2014 at 9:49 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Cato - September 5, 2014 at 10:51 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Dawsonite - September 5, 2014 at 2:54 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Cato - September 5, 2014 at 2:59 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Dawsonite - September 5, 2014 at 3:14 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Tonus - September 5, 2014 at 8:45 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by The Grand Nudger - September 5, 2014 at 3:54 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by naimless - September 5, 2014 at 4:26 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 5, 2014 at 9:12 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Ben Davis - September 5, 2014 at 9:48 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Tonus - September 5, 2014 at 11:51 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 5, 2014 at 10:53 am
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Simon Moon - September 5, 2014 at 1:02 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 5, 2014 at 12:00 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Tonus - September 5, 2014 at 12:18 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Michael - September 5, 2014 at 1:21 pm
RE: Science, faith, and theists - by Simon Moon - September 5, 2014 at 1:35 pm

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