Are Theists Illogical for Believing in God?

[Purple Rabbit]

So there is no necessary relation between arithmetic and physical reality. There is no rule that says things in other universes should be countable at all.

why not? what reason is there that things in other universes wouldn't be countable?

The reason is that logic and reality are two seperate things. I know that this is not easy to understand and that it even might evoke some feelings of immediate rejection, but hear me out. I will try to explain.

Fiirstly, logic is a rule based framework based on a set of relatively few basic assumptions (called axioma) and basic oprations with specific characteristics. It must be consistent for one thing. But nowhere in a logical framework you will come across a conclusion that it necessarily applies to our universe. That it applies to our reality. So how is it possible that our reality follows some logic at all? In fact nobody knows. Several geniuses have tried to explain but did not succeed. Einstein marked it as the real wonder of our universe. So when you look at it from this perspective, it is not so obvious why things in our universe should be countable at all.

Secondly you should realize that we can construct new logical frameworks that are not compatible with the one we have by starting from other axioma or basic operations. Modular arithmetic is such an example (in modular arithmetic with modulo 3 you will see that 2 + 2 = 1). It is not applicable, in one sense anyway, to our universe: material objects in our universe seem countable as natural numbers and not as finite modular sets. But at the same time we can construct logic that isn't applicable to our universe at all. So in fact we have to choose the logic that matches the universe and in doing that implicitly depart from the assumption that our reality indeed follows some logic. But in the end it is nothing but an assumption. Certain parts of mathematics we have come up with have no counterpart in our universe as far as we now know. Logic does not necessitate reality. Logic is not necessarily a description of reality, our reality or any other reality that might coexist with ours.

Another notion that can arise from this is that our reality might harbour not just one logic but possibly more. Is that really possible? Well, a startling find with the discovery of quantum mechanics seems to suggest that this indeed is the case. At the quantum level of our very own universe even countability breaks down due to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. In this realm a different logic, quantum logic, is used to describe the phenomena. On the other hand you could interpret this as unfinished business. We haven't achieved the situation yet in which the description of nature can be captured in one unified logical framework.

What this shows is that you cannot conclude from logic that it has a counterpart in reality and vice versa that you can't conclude that any possible reality necessarily is a reality that obeys one unified logical framework, let alone the logical framework we might arrive at for our universe.

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To say that all universes are logical means that any universe, even the ones you don't enter, must follow some internal logic. How do you manage to arrive at such a conclusion?

Read my previous post and you'll get the answer.
This mathematical process is purely logical:
X≠0 ⇒ N∈X ⇒ N≠0
If the universe has its property X=0, then it cannot exist.

Read my post above to TFS and you'll see your conclusion is build on quick sand. You start from some obscure logic and apply it to all universes. That's circular. To apply logic to universes is to assume thee universes obey your logic.