Misconceptions about Homosexuality

[Pippy]

What gay accent? There is no such thing.

That's the third time now (that I've been told there is no accent). Then I must be mistaken, my apologies.

Where the fuck have you been living? Homosexuality is not revered in the least.

Canada, some New York and North Carolina... Up here in Canada homosexuality is revered. By the media and the progressive people, although a lot of us little people are still uncomfortable with it (or it's reverence). The Times did an article this week about the fact that lesbians make better parents than a straight couple. Reverence.

Too many people think as you do. Too many people hate gays and try to take away their basic civil rights.

I think you are missing some of what I am saying. I certainly do not "hate gays", that is horrible. I find open sexuality of any kind uncomfortable, but do find open homosexuality a little grosser. But if you are allowed to be born gay, I am allowed to be born uncomfortable with gayness. The important part is that I will never hurt, hate, or discriminate based on sexual preference (a strange choice of words, no?). But to refer to my opinions and honest self examination as hatred, and put me on par with people who hurt others is unfair to the extreme.

Gays are constantly put down and hated.

I'm with dotard, every one has it hard, stop whining. In my experience there are far worse things to be than gay. A drug addict social radical. I get mine too sweetheart. I do not see the gays in my life getting too much flak for it. Some sure, but I wouldn't say constantly put down and hated. If anything they get extra lenience. I get sexually harassed once a week by a coworker named Jack, keep complaining, and nothing has been done for 3 years. He grabs me and says very gross things, workplace sexual harassment, is it not? It makes me very, very uncomfortable, but he won't get reprimanded. They tell me to my face it because he's gay. Reverence my dear, different rules than the rest of us. I tell them that I will break his nose, they say that I would be fired and he would be able to charge me if I did. No option. He's doing a great job discrediting your lifestyle up here, but I still don't hate gays, although I may hate Jack. True story (sound so sordid and wimpy on paper).

You think they would choose to get thrown out by their parents when they come out, or choose to have their religions telling them they are going to hell? Come on, Pippy? Are you fucking kidding me?

Just on a side note, you think I would choose to slowly kill myself as a drug addict? Just to tie in to the other thread. I appreciate that argument, I have heard it before. But a lack of evidence does not an evidence of a lack make... So they would not choose to be gay. That doesn't move the genetic argument forward any, just attempts to philosophize away the nurture argument...

Tell me, Pippy, when did you choose to be straight? Hmm?

Are you telling me that gayness and straightness are of an equal value? That I was as likely to be gay as straight, and my being born straight (sort of, that's where this gets complicated) is an equivalent to someone else being born gay? Interesting.

Oh, the classic, homosexuality cannot be naturally occurring because it's not evolutionary advantageous.

Please stay in the lines. I did not say it was not natural, I said that it's not selected for in evolution because it's not selected for in evolution. Natural is a blanket tern anyways. I'm arguing it may be more of a choice than strict genetics, but not that it's un-natural in any way.

First, to address the comment that homosexuality is natural. Natural has many definitions, just look at dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/natural But the first and most relevant definition is "existing in or formed by nature (opposed to artificial ): a natural bridge. " So essentially, if it's found in nature and not "artificial" it's natural. Since animals besides humans have been shown display homosexuality, it is safe to say homosexuality is natural. It's as simple as that.

You love the term "as simple as that", eh? I hate it. Cause it never is. I am not saying it's un-natural. The fact that monkeys have homosexual relationships discredits human homosexuality, not empowers it, it my humble mind. The animals do it, they also eat each others (and their own) babies. I agree, Gayness is natural. Any action a human can take without any foreign objects in play HAS to be natural, doesn't it? Again, blanket term, as you also pointed out above.

However, I'm sure the people are more concerned with natural as being "born with" and "evolutionary advantageous". It's fallacious to think in those terms.

Certainly I don't think 'evolutionarily advantageous', I prefer selected for, is synonymous with 'natural'. Something certainly does not have to be advantageous to be natural.

This is the basic argument for why homosexuals should have equal rights, whether it's genetic or not.

I agree, the argument has nothing to do with their rights. Everyone everywhere gets equal rights until they start getting out of line, and then we start removing their rights. Homosexual behavior, in my mind, does not count as getting out of line. Murder and shit, you know...

Now, to discuss the whole evolutionary aspect.

Yeah, yeah, kindergarten. Thanks though...

but it's doesn't prevent the race from continuing if a substantial amount of the species are still breeding

think about this sentences damning of the lifestyle from a pragmatic, or even Social Contract point of view... I would have left that one out.

If people are uncomfortable with homosexuality, that's fine.

I wish I was more open about my sexuality, you would appreciate how two faced I am being. I am so much more uncomfortable with homosexuality than you can understand. But not your guys homosexuality, understand? All I ask is that I am allowed to be born uncomfortable with gayness. I promise I won't hurt anyone, and will always try to take advantage of opportunities to learn and overcome. This one isn't going very well. They never do.

No one is asking you to pander to gays.

As Dotard so aptly responded. Specific legislation based on the sexual preference of the victim. As if there is such a thing as a crime that is not a hate crime, doublespeak bullshit that is. Pander.

It's about equality.

We agree. It's interesting that you think gays are an oppressed minority, and I think they have taken it too far. Very interesting, in it's drastic difference of opinion.

We're not bothering you we just want to live their own damn lives, the same way you get to live yours.

And as a representative for the People Who Promise Not to Hurt Anyone, But are Uncomfortable With Homosexuality Anonymous, we just want to live our lives the way we were born, as long as we promise not to hurt anyone.

I always take the opportunity to ask the honest questions I have about the genetic argument, and the accent thing, but certainly am not propagating hatred of any kind. We are all family. You're allowed to be gay. Thank you, this has been a long hour and a bit, I'm sorry to have spent all morning yelling at you Eilo, but you really know how to press my buttons. I'll be in Vermont next weekend, should I visit ol' Mass? I'll bring flowers.

Thanks all,
-Pip