(September 8, 2014 at 6:49 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Okay, while I like the word transcendent, and based on its etymology I think it works fine, it's clearly introducing unintended confusion.wait, wait, wait, wait....
The principle I'm talking about is this: that some supervenient properties, once they supervene, are not so much a product of the specific mechanism on which they supervene, but on an underlying principle. So a wave supervenes on the relationship between gravity, surface tension, etc. rather than on water molecules (or molten lava molecules or whatever).
"are not a product of the specific mechanism"?
An ocean wave is a product of the water, be it caused by tides, winds or some boat engine.
A pressure wave is also a product of the medium.... it's typically called a sound wave, unless you're talking about rocks... then it's called an seismic P-wave.
You always need a medium... even for electromagnetic waves... for a time, people were looking for the aether, but then it turned out it was fields.
Back to mind, a computer generated mind would still be tied up to the computer where it is being generated. You can't remove it from there. Much like in a brain, you can't remove the mind from the brain. As far as I see it, the mind is the working brain. The brain is always working, so the mind is always there.... as soon as the brain stop working, the mind vanishes.
What we need is the underlying principle to classify what constitutes a mind. But a mind can be present in any number of different mediums (although we are, so far, only aware of the brain) and will always arise from the medium.... a working medium. The medium by itself, without that initial spark will be a dead medium.
(September 8, 2014 at 6:49 pm)bennyboy Wrote: My question is this: what simple word, other than transcendence, could you call this idea?
A concept, perhaps.
But a mind is not just a concept... a mind, independent from the medium where it arises seems to be nonsense. It's like a wave, independent from the medium where it is propagating.... it just doesn't work.
Even the mathematical formulation for a moving wave requires the viscosity of the medium to work out how the wave propagates... without the medium itself, there's no wave.... there's no mind.
Perhaps the analogy is going a bit too far...
