Welcome!
As soon as you decide that you're okay believing in things that are eternal or "outside of time", I have to ask you: how do you know the universe isn't eternal? I certainly have no proof that it is, but we have no proof of any gods, either. You have to assume them in your premise to reach them as a conclusion with the cosmological argument.
We know there is a universe. We don't know there are any gods. Why add extra assumptions to the equation?
Yes, the universe has a lot of amazing, predictable qualities which can be described using systems. Note: we are intelligent and we can create predictable systems. That does not necessarily mean that any predictable system must have been created by some intelligent thought.
Framing it that way is easy and comfortable from our point of view, but that's not a valid logical conclusion to make.
One of the most important things you can remember: there's nothing wrong with saying "I don't know". I feel this is far more honest and superior to making something up to try and get to an answer. Also, if your answer requires some presupposition and it raises more questions than it answered, of what use is it?
Now, I certainly can't prove that no gods exist, and I'll never try, but I see no reason to assume they do exist, either.
(September 6, 2014 at 8:40 pm)Madness20 Wrote: - The universe requires a cause.
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- Whatever primary cause the universe has, it must be eternal.
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- The primary cause, created everything.
As soon as you decide that you're okay believing in things that are eternal or "outside of time", I have to ask you: how do you know the universe isn't eternal? I certainly have no proof that it is, but we have no proof of any gods, either. You have to assume them in your premise to reach them as a conclusion with the cosmological argument.
We know there is a universe. We don't know there are any gods. Why add extra assumptions to the equation?
(September 6, 2014 at 8:40 pm)Madness20 Wrote: - Intelligence/Determination
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There's just one way i would adjectivate the complex organization of our universe: brilliantly suspiciously organized.
Yes, the universe has a lot of amazing, predictable qualities which can be described using systems. Note: we are intelligent and we can create predictable systems. That does not necessarily mean that any predictable system must have been created by some intelligent thought.
Framing it that way is easy and comfortable from our point of view, but that's not a valid logical conclusion to make.
(September 6, 2014 at 8:40 pm)Madness20 Wrote: What do you guys think? xD. I think i've fallen to theism disease
One of the most important things you can remember: there's nothing wrong with saying "I don't know". I feel this is far more honest and superior to making something up to try and get to an answer. Also, if your answer requires some presupposition and it raises more questions than it answered, of what use is it?
Now, I certainly can't prove that no gods exist, and I'll never try, but I see no reason to assume they do exist, either.
