(September 23, 2014 at 1:20 am)genkaus Wrote: Start by making arguments that are not so easily countered.
Not us - you. Or rather, the religious teachings you subscribe to.
One is not required to try to make it sound different to make it villainous - sacrificing someone for others' benefit is a travesty of justice and therefore automatically villainous.
A shoddy equivocation. A sin is an offense against moral law only if that moral law is equivalent to god's will.
Virtue is a moral concept - it denotes moral excellence. So, if you are claiming that X (faith, piety, honesty, what have you) is a virtue, then you need to defend that claim. Claiming that it is defined as such is not sufficient. Nor is claiming that they are generally accepted as such.
I shall start arguing by not arguing it's not going to happen.
I don't subscribe to any religious teachings, merely an observer of them
I have nothing to prove, no claims to defend, they are what they are. I am not here to debate this, to be scrupulous until you feel satisfied, I am here to offer ideas.
I am concerned that your being here isn't for an interest in unbiased dialogue but rather to promote a long held view you already had. Your comment on sacrifice for others beings says such, we humans have
at times been forced to sacrifice each other so that we might survive, say a group is lost in the middle of nowhere they need food but there is none to be found and so eventually they draw sticks to see who is killed so that they might eat.
Such villainous characters to you are these men who were forced to do by their own need to survive?
The sacrifice of Jesus is not different, according to Catholics and perhaps other Christians it happened so that we humans could live, and one of the larger reasons of the success of religion is probably due to the human instinct to survive.
(September 23, 2014 at 10:47 am)Ben Davis Wrote:(September 22, 2014 at 11:57 pm)Celestine Wrote: ...imagine if it was superceded by a secular version?Already exists:
Positive Reinforcement
Non-religious Meditation
There are quite a few ways to tap in to the benefits afforded by certain mental attitudes but they're maximally effective when combined with action. That's the difference-maker between religious prayer and secular approaches: the former distances you from action under the pretense of effect whilst the latter can drive you to action as a defined outcome.
If I thought there was something suitable to supercede this I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now. In Buddhism, I believe the main objective of meditation is to clear your mind to be 'empty' in the head. I can't help but feel that doesn't produce very good improvement of oneself most of nonsecular meditation is based on buddhism which I don't quite agree with is the best approach to meditation.