Why should religion have any influence on our lives?

[Fidel_Castronaut]

End of.

Except what you miss all through all of your reply, is that the only "End of" there is is that the demand of the secularists to ban state-funded faith schools is contrary to the wishes of people (we tax payers) who both fund and choose the schools. In the UK we have democracy and choice, and I celebrate the freedom we have. You want to suppress that freedom, whereas I can happily celebrate the freedom we have. The schools parents want attract pupils and the government money follows that - it's simple and popular (apart from for those who want strong central state control of schooling).

But you're holding up the fact that people want faith schools for the wrong reason(s). As I've stated, and can evidence if I have enough time, people want faith schools for their grades. Faith schools have succeeded in skewing the funding structures of local authorities away from schools where the majoirty attend to where the minorty attend.

We sent my younger brother to a catholic primary school because it was the best primary school in our area bar some private ones, not because we wanted him to be a little Catholic.

It is the very antithesis of democracy because the education system is unfair in the UK to the extent that people have to actively lie and be disingenuous about their children's beliefs and affairs just to get them a better chance of getting a better education.

This is madness! How can you say this is a good system? I reiterate again & again - If these resources were channelled towards non-denominational secular schools then you would see an overall trend of better educational attainment than you do now.

Let me be clear; what we have isn't democracy. It's favouring a minority of the people by channelling vast sums of money to something at the expense of the majority. It's not equal and it's not fair. In faith schools the only people who can attend who aren't of that religion are those captured through a quota or when places aren't full already of children whose families have indoctrinated them into that religion.

This is the antithesis of 'fair' and 'plural'. It's state sponsored segregation.

Now I'm older, and our children have been through schooling (and it was brilliant, we were really thrilled with all the schools, and the vast majority of the teachers), and so I don't have so much of a dog in this race any more. I really appreciated the choices we had, and what I want for the next generation of young parents coming through is that same freedom of choice that we had. If they (and that includes you) all choose non-faith schools, then so-be-it: I would not begrudge them the choice we had as parents just because they make different choices, and I am happy to pay for the type of schools they want for their children. But, while I have any say, then I will continue to support local freedom and choice in education, so that people, in their own communities, can make their own choices in what is one of the most important things for anyone - the upbringing and education of their children. I want parents to continue to be able to choose for themselves (or indeed the children could choose, once they have sufficient maturity), not to have secularists think that they can choose so much better for other people's children. So, I respect your right to make choices for your children (more than respect it - I very much want you to have that choice), but when you want to stick your nose into the choices others of us make then I will gently tweak your nose and tell you that I'm quite able to make my own choices, but thank you for your concern anyway.

Except now you're equating choice to the status quo. This is unfair.

In the system I am advocating people would still have the choice to set up and fund faith schools, but they would do it from their own religious structures and organisations; their own pocket. Public tax is not your own pocket. It's the pocket of the nation that you contribute relatively small amounts to (vis your total earnings).

I wholeheartedly support freedom of choice, but not when that choice creates such an unequal divide in education policy and, more importantly, education attainment by framing an argument in terms of religious adherence when it's patently more about parents struggling to get better education for their children.

Things can always be better, but I am generally really proud of the education system we have in the UK, and that includes the pluralistic aspect to it; we have a diversity and freedom of education that matches the diversity and freedom of our society, and I'm proud of that as a Brit.

End of

RE: Bold - no, we don't. Far from it. We have continually falling educational standards as compared to the rest of the developed nations in all major academic subjects and a youth unemployment stat which is one of the highest in Europe.

We have a University system where the best University's (Oxbridge, UCL, Durham, Bristol etc) have a disproportionate number of public school children relative to those who attend 'bog standard' comps (and I know as I bloody attended one of them). We have a faith school system that is disproportionately funded relative to their non-denominational counterparts in similar locations. And now we have free schools where anyone and everyone whose got enough cash and support can set up a school and have it. Do I need to reference Birmingham for the utter mess this can lead to when a school's governing body is subverted by [religious or political] extremists within the community that set it up?

I want an answer as to how many Muslims attended your children's faith school and how many of them weren't the legally enforced quota?