(October 7, 2014 at 6:32 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:(October 7, 2014 at 10:53 am)Lek Wrote: Read the bible and see how we are supposed to act toward our fellow men and women as christians. Read the words of Jesus. That's the standard by which we are to live.
..
If a person doesn't live by these standards, then that person is not following Christ, whether they call themselves christians or not.
Wait, so it's works and not faith?
Oddly, the majority of Christians I've encountered claim the exact opposite.
It depends on your context. If you're talking about how you're supposed to behave, Christians look to Christ. If you're talking about how you actually get into heaven, then they bring out a different set of criteria. I've mentioned before that the Christian god incentivizes the wrong things. What he wants you to do and how you are actually rewarded and punished are not even remotely in sync.
This is handwaved by apologists saying that if you "really loved" Jesus, you would follow his teachings, and they try to link the two together a bit more tightly. That, and/or they'll try to adjust the definition of repentance to force works into the equation while simultaneously saying that this doesn't count as works. Because being saved by grace is super important to them, despite the fact that their just world hypothesis doesn't actually let them believe it.
