(October 20, 2014 at 2:43 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote:(October 20, 2014 at 2:33 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: And while I feel that my contribution in this thread is going to come to a close soon (since there isn't any debatable ground left) I would like to thank you all of you for making me challenge myself. I thought up all the answers to your questions in this thread by myself and I must say, I've discovered how much I really know.
Now thanks to debating with you guys and asking myself questions I didn't know the answers to, my faith is stronger than ever :D
Oh I didn't realise Jenny A replied.
But now you've come to the most interesting part of all - is faith a valid and reliable way to know things?
Do you think you have actual knowledge of Jesus doing miracles or are you pretending to know things you don't actually know? And why would that be a valid way of seeing the world?
Your question kept me up all night, trying to think of ways to answer. Really well thought out. I'll come back for a more complete response later, but for now here is what I have to say-
Is faith a valid way of looking at the world? No. It certainly isn't. BUT it certainly is a valid way of comprehending the mysteries in the world until explanations pop up. And seeing as Jesus never wanted to perform the wine miracle in the first place and constantly told everyone to keep the miracles a secret, I don't think believing in miracles is necessary. Believing in spite of that is a different matter.
Jesus said their faith will heal them. Maybe faith really does heal? Confidence something better will happen. Take the lourdes water for example. The water isn't magical. The saint Bernadette said herself that just going into the water won't heal anyone. It takes faith. Thousands go there every year to get "healed" and scientists HAVE accepted that nearly impossible cases have also been healed. Call it law of attraction for a more secular word.
I have no problem accepting Jesus wasn't who he said he was. IF I am given strong evidence that he absolutely did not exist, and that all his actions absolutely didn't happen, I will stop believing. The fact that all those people were willing to die for what they thought was truth is enough for me. If they weren't 100 % sure of being right, or if the apostles knew they had created a false character and attributed a false set of beliefs to the fictional character, KNOWING that they'll have be scourged, insulted, beaten, killed for their made up beliefs on charges of blasphemy, they wouldn't have gone throughout the Roman Empire preaching. That's like ASKING to be killed. For now, I will continue to believe, even if it's just based on faith.
Fun fact #2- I've never heard of Vespasian's miracle, but on his deathbed he said "oh! I think I'm becoming a god!"
Then he stood up from the bed, because gods shouldn't die lying down.