RE: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (Part 1)
November 22, 2014 at 11:00 am
(This post was last modified: November 22, 2014 at 11:01 am by Simon Moon.)
(November 21, 2014 at 8:48 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: The passage would read: "About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man. For he was who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing among us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him. And the tribe of Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.
Looks like the historical Jesus to me..
The entire passage is possibly an interpolation. Even without the bits you highlight, the rest of it does not fit in the narrative of the preceding and following paragraphs in Jospehus' text.
Quote:Tacitus [56-117 AD):[/b]Tacitus was a Roman senator and historian and he also mentioned Jesus.
He was born well after Jesus allegedly lived.
And all we get from him is what is told to him by Christians.
Quote: Next we have Pliny the Younger
Pliny the Younger [61-113 AD]:Pliny the Younger was a magistrate of Ancient Rome, and he mentions Christ, and he is talking to Emperor Trajan about the Christians.
Born too late. Didn't write until 100CE.
Again, all he does is verify that there were Christians in 2nd century Asia Minor. Stop the presses!
Quote:Now, we can put the theological stuff aside for a moment, and acknowledge the fact that we have at least 3 different sources, ALL outside the bible, and ALL non-Christian sources which testify that Jesus was a real person in history, but we have at least two more.
None of them were born or lived during the time Jesus did. At best, all they accomplish is to confirm there were Christians in the 2nd century.
Quote: Lucian of Samosta [125-180 AD]: Lucian was a Greek satirist.
His writings are from 170 CE.
His only source could have been Christians. No one here is arguing that a Christian cult existed in the 2nd century.
Quote: Mara bar 'Serapion [living around 73 AD]:[/b] Mara was a philosopher who lived in the Roman Empire. I wasn't able to determine when he was born, but it seems as if the general consensus is that he wrote the passage below around 73 AD.
His letter reports on the practices and beliefs of Christians.
What's your point?
Quote:Do you people see what is going on here? Without even reading one freakin' page of the Bible, what kind of conclusions can we draw from these 5 non-Christian sources?
At best these sources confirm is that Christians existed in the 2nd century. Nothing more.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
