MERGED: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (Part 1) & (Part 2)

[His_Majesty]

Sorry, I have to interject on this one because it's something I cover specifically in my book: Jenny said misremember, not that they wouldn't remember it at all.

I understand what she said, I am just saying it shouldn't be said regarding THAT particular subject...we are ultimately talking about a man that supposedly rose from the dead and she is talking about how 20 years later, people forget shit like that...and as I said, bullshit.

The example I've always used is the Oklahoma City Bombing. I remember sitting in my Biology class when we heard and felt the blast. I remember that when we were told a bomb had gone off downtown, someone asked whether it was downtown Oklahoma City or downtown in our suburb. I remember my exact response: “There’s no way it was Oklahoma City, you moron. Do you realize how big a bomb would have to be to feel it this far away?” (Even then, I was a smart ass and had a habit of putting my foot in my mouth.)

You don't say?

I remember my best friend and I jumping into his car and heading downtown since we both had first aid training. (We were young and naïve, thinking we could help, never considering we would probably just get in the way.)

Good intentions has no age requirement.

I especially remember the screeching U-turn we made when we heard on the radio that investigators thought they might have found additional bombs in the rubble. This was the basis of the story as I retold it over the years, and not surprisingly, that is the extent of what I remember.

Looking back there is much more that I do not remember.

You remembered the bombing tho...they remembered the Resurrection tho. You don't have to remember every little detail, but the jest of it was there was a bombing in OKC.

I can’t for the life of me remember to whom I had made the sarcastic comment, though I seem to think I could narrow it down to a few specific people who I remember having been in that class.

That is you..everyone is different...Paul remembered, you didn't.

I have no idea if my friend and I simply left class in the ensuing chaos or if we told anyone what we were doing. I don’t even remember what I did after we turned around—I wouldn’t think I would have gone back to class, but I remember spending some time watching the news on a TV in another class-room. (Though actually, that might have been before we decided to try to go and volunteer. But again, I don’t remember.)

You have a shitty memory, apparently.

There are also details over which my friend and I have argued as the years have passed. I remember the class immediately coming to a standstill with the interruption. I remember someone sticking her head in to tell us what had happened. My friend, however, specifically remembers us only hearing the news after class had let out—specifically citing someone who had been upset that we hadn’t been informed earlier. Both of us have specific logical reasons that convince us that the events unfolded exactly as we remember them, and although these details don’t appear to be reconcilable, neither of us was ever willing to budge.

Then there are the details that I have crafted in my own mind. A few years after the fact, I couldn’t remember if we had been in Biology or Human Physiology. My friend said he was absolutely certain it had been Biology. Although I concur now, I’m not sure if it’s because I actually remember it or because his certainty convinced me and just made me think I remembered it. Likewise, the exact time of the blast is a matter of historical record, but in my mind, I tend to want to re-member my Biology class being earlier in the morning.

All the examples you gave are the same--I'm sure people remember those events, but I imagine that if pressed, there would be numerous discrepancies to actual occurences.

True, I gotcha...but the main idea is that there was a bombing in OKC...no one is disputing that fact...and likewise; the main idea was that Jesus Resurrected, and no one is disputing that..at least, not the early church.

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He never intimated that it did, you fool. All he said was that indoctrination, as a method of bringing people into a certain belief, leaves them preferring stunted, simplistic answers delivered in a tone of authority, especially if that belief is supposed to govern much of a person's life.

Well, that is what I got out of it because otherwise, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever how someone came to get their belief...hell, someone could be indoctrinated with truth...so if they were indoctrinated with truth, then all of that other crap doesn't really matter, now does it?

If Jesus ACTUALLY rose from the dead, and someone is indoctrinated with the belief that Jesus actually rose from the dead...then what would be the problem?

You know what else is a fallacy? The strawman.

Maybe consider, you know, actually responding to what people say in future, instead of what you imagine them to say? All the fallacies you spot seem to be coming from the bits you imagine, after all.

Keeping trying, Esquil...eventually I will let you win an argument against me...eventually.

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Apparently, you don't know what the genetic fallacy is. Nobody is arguing that your claims are false because of indoctrination; merely that indoctrination typically results in, and universally explains, harebrained idiots such as yourself who refuse to admit, after their claims are refuted and counterarguments are offered, that beneath the veneer of confidence lie empty concepts and hollow delusion.

Usually when someone claims that someone else has been "indoctrinated", the person that is making the accusation usually thinks that the indoctrination is based on something false, naïve, stupid...whatever it is.

I've never heard someone say "He's been indoctrinated with the truth of 2+2=4!!!"

Because as I mentioned before, if the indoctrination was based upon truth, then I doubt the poster would have made the freakin' statement...so again, that's how I took it..and as I said...GENETIC FALLACY.