Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: January 6, 2025, 12:59 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Agnostic: a pointless term?
#42
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term?
(December 9, 2014 at 7:31 am)robvalue Wrote: David Mitchell did that? I'm surprised.

Sadly yes, to quote his Observer column:

“What I don’t understand is why so many people, the religious and the irreligious alike, have swallowed the idea that atheism is the most rational conclusion to draw about humanity’s position and state of grace. Even those who oppose atheism do so in terms of its being too rational: lacking imagination or faith. ‘Just because there’s no actual reason to believe in something doesn’t mean it can’t be there,’ they say.

But atheism isn’t the most rational approach - agnosticism is. You can’t know, so it’s irrational to say that you do. An atheist or religious observant might counter that agnosticism - saying you don’t know if there’s a god or gods - isn’t a conclusion at all. They’d have a point - but in that case, I say it’s irrational to draw a conclusion. We don’t know and we can’t know.

Atheism is also a leap of faith, albeit a nihilistic one. It might as well be a religion - many of its adherents evangelise about their philosophy and beliefs as much as the religious do. They claim their opinions to be certainties. They viciously criticise those who believe otherwise. They are, in some cases, emotionally attached to the idea that there’s no God and dislike being gainsaid as much as the Pope or an Ayatollah does. They then wrap up this annoyance as anger at the terrible suffering religion has brought to the world - as if they truly think it’s the religious beliefs themselves, rather than humanity’s in-built urges to kill, persecute and suppress, that led to the Crusades or the Troubles or the failure to address the AIDS Pandemic."


His piece would make more sense if Atheism was defined as the knowledge that there is no God. He's also fortunate to have been brought up amongst the very moderate CofE beliefs, and not in the bible belt in America.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 8, 2014 at 3:42 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - December 8, 2014 at 5:25 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 8, 2014 at 5:51 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - December 8, 2014 at 6:40 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Rarthyr500 - December 8, 2014 at 6:44 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - December 8, 2014 at 12:08 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - December 8, 2014 at 10:39 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 8, 2014 at 6:46 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by abaris - December 8, 2014 at 7:52 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Alex K - December 8, 2014 at 8:20 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - December 8, 2014 at 11:34 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by MysticKnight - December 8, 2014 at 5:40 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - December 8, 2014 at 11:11 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Tonus - February 2, 2015 at 11:00 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 8, 2014 at 5:41 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by MysticKnight - December 8, 2014 at 5:43 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - December 9, 2014 at 12:54 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Simon Moon - December 9, 2014 at 8:50 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 8, 2014 at 5:44 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by MysticKnight - December 8, 2014 at 5:45 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by abaris - December 8, 2014 at 5:45 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by FatAndFaithless - December 8, 2014 at 5:45 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by MechViking - December 8, 2014 at 5:46 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by abaris - December 8, 2014 at 5:53 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Mudhammam - December 8, 2014 at 5:49 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 8, 2014 at 10:59 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 9, 2014 at 3:25 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - December 9, 2014 at 4:05 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - December 9, 2014 at 4:07 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 9, 2014 at 4:06 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 9, 2014 at 4:09 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - December 9, 2014 at 4:35 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 9, 2014 at 4:39 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - December 9, 2014 at 4:41 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 9, 2014 at 4:44 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - December 9, 2014 at 5:02 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 9, 2014 at 5:05 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - December 9, 2014 at 6:08 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 9, 2014 at 6:15 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by FreeTony - December 9, 2014 at 7:15 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - December 9, 2014 at 9:33 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 9, 2014 at 7:31 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by ManMachine - December 9, 2014 at 7:44 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 9, 2014 at 7:46 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by FreeTony - December 9, 2014 at 7:55 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - December 9, 2014 at 11:51 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 9, 2014 at 8:21 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 9, 2014 at 9:36 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by FreeTony - December 9, 2014 at 10:46 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - December 9, 2014 at 8:18 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - December 9, 2014 at 9:22 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - December 9, 2014 at 11:09 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 9, 2014 at 11:27 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 9, 2014 at 11:55 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - December 9, 2014 at 9:59 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 10, 2014 at 2:20 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - December 10, 2014 at 2:39 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Grandizer - December 10, 2014 at 2:41 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Darkstar - January 26, 2015 at 10:12 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Dystopia - January 26, 2015 at 10:17 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - December 10, 2014 at 2:50 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Dystopia - January 26, 2015 at 6:25 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 26, 2015 at 11:38 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Dystopia - January 26, 2015 at 11:49 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - January 26, 2015 at 7:52 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Dystopia - January 26, 2015 at 8:05 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - January 26, 2015 at 8:53 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by AFTT47 - January 26, 2015 at 11:02 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by c172 - January 26, 2015 at 11:14 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 27, 2015 at 12:10 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - January 27, 2015 at 4:25 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 27, 2015 at 11:18 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Dystopia - January 27, 2015 at 12:23 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Davka - January 27, 2015 at 11:35 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - January 27, 2015 at 6:55 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Dystopia - January 27, 2015 at 7:51 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - January 27, 2015 at 12:54 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Norman Humann - January 27, 2015 at 1:31 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by IATIA - January 27, 2015 at 8:25 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by YGninja - January 30, 2015 at 8:31 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by wiploc - January 31, 2015 at 3:55 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by YGninja - February 1, 2015 at 9:55 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by wiploc - February 2, 2015 at 2:10 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by YGninja - February 2, 2015 at 4:05 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by wiploc - February 2, 2015 at 4:11 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by YGninja - February 3, 2015 at 12:04 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Creed of Heresy - February 3, 2015 at 1:21 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by YGninja - February 3, 2015 at 11:18 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Creed of Heresy - February 5, 2015 at 7:19 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Pizza - February 5, 2015 at 9:16 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Creed of Heresy - February 5, 2015 at 5:49 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by IATIA - February 5, 2015 at 10:25 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by YGninja - February 5, 2015 at 10:40 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - February 4, 2015 at 1:41 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 30, 2015 at 8:55 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by YGninja - January 30, 2015 at 9:12 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by AFTT47 - January 30, 2015 at 10:11 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by YGninja - January 31, 2015 at 11:53 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by IATIA - January 31, 2015 at 12:21 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by YGninja - January 31, 2015 at 12:25 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by IATIA - January 31, 2015 at 12:29 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 31, 2015 at 2:12 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by IATIA - January 31, 2015 at 12:28 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - January 30, 2015 at 11:20 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 31, 2015 at 2:03 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Norman Humann - January 31, 2015 at 2:06 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - January 31, 2015 at 7:02 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - January 31, 2015 at 12:04 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by YGninja - January 31, 2015 at 12:10 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - January 31, 2015 at 12:11 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by YGninja - January 31, 2015 at 12:14 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by YGninja - January 31, 2015 at 12:29 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - January 31, 2015 at 12:17 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by YGninja - January 31, 2015 at 12:23 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Norman Humann - January 31, 2015 at 12:18 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - January 31, 2015 at 12:19 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - January 31, 2015 at 12:23 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by AFTT47 - January 31, 2015 at 12:23 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - January 31, 2015 at 12:24 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Norman Humann - January 31, 2015 at 12:29 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Aoi Magi - January 31, 2015 at 3:14 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - February 1, 2015 at 4:17 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by AFTT47 - February 1, 2015 at 11:48 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - February 2, 2015 at 4:37 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - February 2, 2015 at 7:01 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by wiploc - February 2, 2015 at 7:49 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - February 2, 2015 at 7:04 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Dystopia - February 2, 2015 at 10:51 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - February 2, 2015 at 12:08 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by ManMachine - February 2, 2015 at 11:11 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - February 2, 2015 at 12:46 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by AFTT47 - February 2, 2015 at 1:35 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - February 2, 2015 at 8:17 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by AFTT47 - February 2, 2015 at 9:24 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - February 2, 2015 at 11:17 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by ManMachine - February 2, 2015 at 7:35 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Pizza - February 2, 2015 at 9:09 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by ManMachine - February 2, 2015 at 11:46 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Pizza - February 3, 2015 at 1:02 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by wiploc - February 3, 2015 at 1:08 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Pizza - February 3, 2015 at 1:12 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - February 2, 2015 at 1:15 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - February 2, 2015 at 2:18 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by veoli - February 2, 2015 at 7:22 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by AFTT47 - February 3, 2015 at 12:10 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Fidel_Castronaut - February 3, 2015 at 1:33 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Creed of Heresy - February 3, 2015 at 3:09 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Fidel_Castronaut - February 3, 2015 at 4:34 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Creed of Heresy - February 3, 2015 at 8:31 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - February 3, 2015 at 8:44 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Creed of Heresy - February 3, 2015 at 9:02 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - February 3, 2015 at 11:57 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - February 4, 2015 at 1:04 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - February 4, 2015 at 5:25 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Cato - February 6, 2015 at 1:04 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - February 3, 2015 at 9:09 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Creed of Heresy - February 3, 2015 at 9:16 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Pizza - February 3, 2015 at 11:57 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Pizza - February 5, 2015 at 8:52 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - February 5, 2015 at 9:10 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Neo-Scholastic - February 5, 2015 at 9:49 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by AFTT47 - February 5, 2015 at 9:59 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - February 5, 2015 at 10:20 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by AFTT47 - February 5, 2015 at 11:46 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by wiploc - February 6, 2015 at 12:12 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by AFTT47 - February 6, 2015 at 12:32 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Tonus - February 6, 2015 at 8:20 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - February 6, 2015 at 9:37 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - February 6, 2015 at 2:40 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Fidel_Castronaut - February 6, 2015 at 6:01 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - February 6, 2015 at 7:38 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - February 6, 2015 at 8:28 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Creed of Heresy - February 9, 2015 at 3:38 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by YGninja - February 10, 2015 at 10:29 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - February 11, 2015 at 1:25 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Grandizer - February 11, 2015 at 2:11 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - February 9, 2015 at 2:35 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Creed of Heresy - February 9, 2015 at 8:19 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - February 10, 2015 at 2:27 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - February 10, 2015 at 7:43 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by bennyboy - February 10, 2015 at 2:00 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by psychoslice - February 10, 2015 at 2:27 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by FlyingSpaghettiMonster - February 10, 2015 at 4:18 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - February 11, 2015 at 2:19 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Cyberman - February 11, 2015 at 3:08 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - February 11, 2015 at 3:16 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - February 11, 2015 at 11:51 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - February 11, 2015 at 12:05 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - February 11, 2015 at 12:09 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - February 11, 2015 at 12:12 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by dyresand - February 11, 2015 at 12:16 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Cyberman - February 11, 2015 at 2:20 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Creed of Heresy - February 14, 2015 at 6:05 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - February 14, 2015 at 6:52 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Creed of Heresy - February 15, 2015 at 12:41 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Thumpalumpacus - February 15, 2015 at 4:31 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - February 15, 2015 at 6:42 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Mr.wizard - February 15, 2015 at 10:09 am
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Pizza - February 15, 2015 at 2:50 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - February 15, 2015 at 2:58 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by wiploc - February 15, 2015 at 3:17 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Outtahere - February 15, 2015 at 3:29 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by emilynghiem - February 16, 2015 at 12:30 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - February 16, 2015 at 12:45 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by emilynghiem - February 16, 2015 at 3:08 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by robvalue - February 16, 2015 at 12:56 pm
RE: Agnostic: a pointless term? - by Whateverist - February 16, 2015 at 3:24 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Question from an agnostic chrisNub 41 11268 March 30, 2018 at 7:28 am
Last Post: robvalue
  My brother who used to be a devout Muslim is now agnostic Lebneni Murtad 4 1588 March 21, 2017 at 5:08 pm
Last Post: Mr Greene
  What is the right definition of agnostic? Red_Wind 27 6767 November 7, 2016 at 11:43 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  Well, I just can't change that I'm Agnostic... LivingNumbers6.626 15 3609 July 6, 2016 at 4:33 am
Last Post: Alex K
  Everyone is Agnostic z7z 16 3908 June 26, 2016 at 10:36 am
Last Post: Whateverist
  Can you persuade me from Agnostic to Atheist? AgnosticMan123 160 31278 June 6, 2016 at 10:43 pm
Last Post: Adam Blackstar
  My siblings are agnostic, should I try discussing atheism with them? CindyBaker 17 4274 April 18, 2016 at 9:27 am
Last Post: LostLocke
  Aren't Science vs. Creation Debates......rather pointless? maestroanth 30 6686 March 29, 2016 at 9:20 am
Last Post: Whateverist
  Albert Einstein the Agnostic MattB 21 6904 February 23, 2016 at 11:45 pm
Last Post: MattB
  Proposal For A New Term BrianSoddingBoru4 37 5318 February 4, 2016 at 9:39 pm
Last Post: Cyberman



Users browsing this thread: 7 Guest(s)