MERGED: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (Part 1) & (Part 2)

[His_Majesty]

Evidently not. The fact that you like it doesn't mean you understand it.

What you are doing is emphasizing on the fact that I said I "like it", but what you aren't doing is explaining how my description of the Trinity was/is inaccurate....it wasn't.

I said: The Trinity is the doctrine that the Father, Son, and Holy spirit are three separate beings/persons, that share the same Deity of God

Do you see that? THREE SEPARATE BEINGS/PERSONS, THAT SHARE THE SAME DEITY OF GOD.

Now what part of that is false? And then you give diagrams as if the diagram is supposed to explain something contrary to what I said, which it didn't.

So again, all of this over-the-top analyzations of the Trinity doctrine is unwarranted...or let me take that back, it may be warranted, just not to me.

The "idea" (as incoherent as it is) of the Trinity as commonly is "explained" (as well as it can be) is that it is three separate persons but all three are part of one god.

Now take a look at that...look at the above quote...now compare that to what I originally said, again:

The Trinity is the doctrine that the Father, Son, and Holy spirit are three separate beings/persons, that share the same Deity of God

"Three separate beings that share the same Deity of God" (what I said) and "Three separate persons but all three are part of one God" (what you said) is the same freakin thing. It is the same shit, yet you made it seem as if I was inaccurate only to "correct" me with the same shit I said

So quick to attack without taking the time to fully comprehend what you are reading..which I noticed is very common on these forums.

Contrasted with many passages in the Bible that make it clear Jesus is a separate

Duh, we already established that they are separate beings, which in itself is not a disqualification of being God. Next...

and subordinate being to his father god.

The subordination is just the rank and or roles between the two, that says nothing about Deity. If the Father came on earth to participate as a human in a basketball game, he would still be subjected/the subordinate of the coach, wouldn't he? But that wouldn't change the fact that he is God, it wouldn't change his Deity status.

So again, let me continue to school you on this here issue...

Jesus has inferior knowledge:
Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

The attribute of omniscience was given to Jesus in John 21:15-17, after Jesus asked Peter three times do he love him, and after the third time Peter said "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you". Jesus didn't say "I don't know all things, Peter, only the Father knows all things", he simply accepted the attribute because it was true.

The explanation given for Mark 13:32 is that Jesus didn't know the hour as a man, but he knows it as God.

Jesus has a separate and subordinate will:

Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

That was just Jesus' way of saying "If there is a less painful way for me to do this, then please, may I do it that way?"

He knew what was coming...insults, slaps, being spit on, beaten, having a crown of thorns on your head, nails going through your hands, and feet...I wouldn't wish that on my worse enemy.

Jesus has inferior morality:

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Typical example of taking scriptures out of context. If Jesus lived his whole life without sin, how is that not good? He could have been saying implying "Why do you call me good, only God is good, are you saying I am God?"

I am saying that this could have been the IMPLICATION....after all, Jesus called John the Baptist the "GREATEST MAN BORN OF A WOMAN" (Matt 11:11)...but despite such high praise, John said that he isn't even worthy to untie Jesus' sandals (John 1:27)...so if John is the greatest man born of a woman, and despite that he is unable to untie Jesus' sandals, that would make Jesus even greater, right?

We have to reason within the scriptures.

The booming voice from the sky speaks of Jesus in 3rd person and to him in 2nd person:

Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

The Father is speaking in reference to the Son, no problems there.

So Jesus can forgive sins because he is divine. But he prays to Yahweh because he is human. But Christianity is not polytheistic because there is only one god. But Jesus is an intercessor because he is a separate being from his father. But there are three. But there is only one. He is God and Not God at the same time, depending on the needs of the story at that time.

He is both God and man. He is God in the body of a human. Basically, anyone ever wondered what it would be like for God to walk the earth in the body of a human, they don't need to look any further than Jesus. That is why John 1:14 states that the "Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us".

Except where the Bible says otherwise. See above.

Already spanked you.

There was never a point in the synoptic Gospels where Jesus WAS said to be God, save for one passage where Matthew misquotes Isaiah. Even in the Gospel of John, the union isn't clear.

Doesn't matter, all we need is one Gospel to say it, and John does...and the union is very clear..all you have to do is read John 1:1, and unless you have a New World's Translation of the scriptures (Jehovah Witness's bible), it is very clear.

Second, the fact that Jesus lived a perfectly sinless life implies that he is God, as that is a something that only God can do.

Three separate persons. One god. Babbling nonsense.

Makes sense to me and everyone else that believes in the Holy Trinity.

Not exactly. I need more than just "it really happened". But well done playing dumb. Fine, if I must spoon feed you...

Not playing dumb...you got what you asked for and you were asked to be specific if you wanted to know anything extra.

How many women visited Jesus' tomb?

No Gospel gives an exact number as to how many women visted Jesus' tomb.

Did they come before dawn or after dawn on the Sunday?

Luke said "very early in the morning".

John said "While it was still dark"

Mark said "Just after sunrise", and if was just after sunrise, it was still very early in the morning and still dark.

Matthew said "At dawn"...and at dawn it is still dark.

No problems here.

Was the stone rolled away or was it still in place?

Matthew said it was rolled back Matthew 28:2
Mark said it was rolled away Mark 16:4
Luke said it was rolled away Luke 24:2
John said the stone had been removed John 10:1

No problems here.

How many angels were there?

No exact number was given...if one Gospel says one, and the other says two, well..if it was two, then there was at least one.

No problems here.

Were the angels inside or outside the tomb?

Matthew said there was at least one on the outside Matthew 28:2

Mark said there was at least one inside Mark 16:5

Luke said there was two inside Luke 24:4

John said there was two inside John 20:12

So basically, according to all four narratives, there was at least one outside, and two inside.

No problems here.

What did the angels say?

They may have said lots of things, and each account has different variations of what was said, but it is ultimately the same thing..the central message was that JESUS HAD RISEN.

Was the woman/were the women terrified or overjoyed?

They were terrified at first, but then overjoyed.

Did the women tell anyone what happened?

Not at first.

Who did the resurrected Jesus first appear to, where did he first appear and what did he say?

Matthew and Mark clearly states that he appeared to the women first, with Mark specificallly stating that he appeared to Mary first (Mark 16:9), but admittedly, Mark 16:9-20 is not recorded in the earliest manuscripts...Luke doesn't mention the appearance to the women first, but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen first, and John has Jesus appearing to Mary first (John 20:10-16).

He appeared outside the tomb to Mary according to John 20:10-11

He appeared to the women while they were on their way to to tell the disciples according to Matthew 28:8-9, Mary could have stayed behind weeping (John 20:10-11), while the others ran.

Mark does have a appearance account if we disregard verses after 16:8, but if you count the later verses, Jesus appeared to Mary first and it does not state at what location.

Luke does not mention the appearance to the women.


No problems. At least two of the Gospels state that Jesus appeared to the women first, specifically Mary first.

Which disciples ran to the tomb and what happened then?

Luke said that Peter ran to the tomb, but does not mention anyone else running to the tomb (Luke 24:12).

Mark does not record this particular account.

Matthew does not record this particular account.

John said that Peter and the disciple John (presumably) John 20:3.

It is clear that two disciples ran to the tomb, one Gospel states Peter, and the other states Peter and another...just because one book mentions just one does not mean that there wasn't another.

Where did the resurrected Jesus first appear to the disciples?

John says Jesus appeared to the disciples at a place where there was a locked door (John 20:19). It doesn't say how many disciples were present at that particular time.

Mark doesn't have a post-mortem appearance narrative, excluding the later additions.

Luke states that he appeared to two of "them" on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24:13), those two went and reported what they saw to the rest of the disciples in Jerusalem (verses 34-35), then Jesus appeared to them all, the Eleven, and the two that gave the report.

Matthew states that Jesus told the women to tell the disciples to meet with him at Galilee (Matthew 28:10), which they did (verse 16).

Now I will admit, this is the most difficult one to handle...but it seems like the first appearance was in Jerusalem and there was another (among many) in Galilee as well.

Where did Jesus tell his disciples to go after the resurrection?

To Galilee (Matthew 28:10)

Did Jesus appear to all 11 at once or just 10 and then to Thomas later?

He appeared to the Eleven, excluding John...there seem to have been another disciple named Cleopas (Luke 24:18)..he may have replaced Judas...so with Cleopas and John, that makes a total of twelve altogether.

How long did the resurrected Jesus linger on earth before ascending into Heaven (same day, 1 week or 40 days according to Acts)?

40 days, according to Acts.

OK, I forgot to mention that you have to reconcile Acts of the Apostles with the Gospels as well. Sorry for not saying so earlier but I think that's understood since it's part of scripture.

Luke is the only Gospel that has an ascension narrative and he wrote both the Gospel of Luke and Acts. The ascension narrative he mentioned in Luke was probably one of a few ascensions (or many), and the one mentioned in Acts is just the last one.