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If Only The Romans
#33
RE: If Only The Romans
(December 26, 2014 at 1:37 pm)abaris Wrote:
(December 26, 2014 at 1:23 pm)Minimalist Wrote: And China seems to be moving in the right direction.

China combines the worst of both worlds. Unchained capitalism with communist opression. It's hard to work up any sympathy for them, let alone claim, they're moving in the right direction.

They successfully lifted 800 million people from medieval poverty to something resembling modernity as well as freedom in the form of practical options in life in 35 years. That generated sympathy in me on a scale much larger than can possibly be engendered by any cultural, ideological or political-philosophical approval.

The right to eat, and the freedom of have options in life, for one, even one I may dislike, trumps the right to vote, speak or have freedom of conscience for a much larger number, even of my most favorite people.

In my opinion, through the economic growth and resulting widespread increase in standard of living which they made possible, the Chinese government in the last 35 years, however philosophically displeasing, successfully facilitated more good that really mattered in the long run than the rest of the world combined.

(December 26, 2014 at 2:11 pm)abaris Wrote:
(December 26, 2014 at 2:08 pm)Minimalist Wrote: The Party will soon discover that there is no such thing as "a little freedom." They have unleashed forces that they cannot control.

Right now Corporatists all over the world cream their pants over China. No regards for human rights, no regards for working conditions and incomes as low as they get without outright slavery. And all combined in a neat little package of opression that makes protests impossible.

As long as the Dollar is rolling, the Chinese government won't change anything.


They needn't change because they can truthfully say the average worker is twice as well off today in terms of purchasing power as 7 years ago and convincingly promise that the average worker will be twice yet better off in ten years as today.. They can also make claims in the same direction, but of different magnitudes, in terms of leisure time, career options, realistic retirement ages, etc.

We are compelled to insist "better off" must mean something different from how the chinese would like it to mean because we don't want to feel too sad about the fact that our average workers are worse off today than 30 years ago and realistically will be still more worse off 30 year from now than today in terms of purchasing power, and probably the same in terms of leisure time, realistic retirement age, and other things that might otherwise be tempting to use as a measure of whether we are "better off".
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Messages In This Thread
If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 25, 2014 at 1:50 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Anomalocaris - December 25, 2014 at 1:53 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lemonvariable72 - December 25, 2014 at 2:58 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by abaris - December 25, 2014 at 3:16 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Anomalocaris - December 25, 2014 at 4:04 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by vorlon13 - December 26, 2014 at 10:46 am
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 25, 2014 at 2:00 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 25, 2014 at 2:08 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 25, 2014 at 2:12 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 25, 2014 at 2:53 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 25, 2014 at 7:19 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Anomalocaris - December 25, 2014 at 7:31 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 25, 2014 at 8:12 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Crossless1 - December 26, 2014 at 6:08 am
RE: If Only The Romans - by Mudhammam - December 27, 2014 at 12:07 am
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 27, 2014 at 12:32 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 27, 2014 at 2:22 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by downbeatplumb - December 29, 2014 at 5:55 am
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 29, 2014 at 12:47 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by dyresand - December 29, 2014 at 1:07 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 29, 2014 at 2:44 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by dyresand - December 29, 2014 at 2:49 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 29, 2014 at 2:55 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Tonus - December 29, 2014 at 3:09 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 29, 2014 at 3:16 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Faith No More - December 29, 2014 at 3:26 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by dyresand - December 29, 2014 at 3:49 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 29, 2014 at 5:50 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by abaris - December 29, 2014 at 5:52 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 29, 2014 at 9:37 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by ronedee - December 29, 2014 at 9:48 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 29, 2014 at 10:48 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by abaris - December 30, 2014 at 6:25 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 30, 2014 at 6:38 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Tonus - December 29, 2014 at 3:56 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Mudhammam - December 29, 2014 at 4:49 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 29, 2014 at 6:11 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Esquilax - December 29, 2014 at 8:17 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 29, 2014 at 9:30 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Esquilax - December 29, 2014 at 10:07 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 30, 2014 at 6:14 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Strider - December 30, 2014 at 6:33 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 30, 2014 at 6:57 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Esquilax - December 30, 2014 at 8:06 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 30, 2014 at 8:39 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by h4ym4n - December 31, 2014 at 8:59 am
RE: If Only The Romans - by abaris - December 29, 2014 at 8:29 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 29, 2014 at 9:34 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 30, 2014 at 11:33 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by h4ym4n - December 29, 2014 at 3:46 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 29, 2014 at 5:55 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by abaris - December 29, 2014 at 6:02 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by h4ym4n - December 29, 2014 at 8:07 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 29, 2014 at 9:12 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Tonus - December 29, 2014 at 8:47 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by abaris - December 29, 2014 at 3:54 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 29, 2014 at 6:06 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by abaris - December 29, 2014 at 6:08 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 29, 2014 at 2:35 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by dyresand - December 29, 2014 at 2:40 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 29, 2014 at 2:50 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by dyresand - December 29, 2014 at 2:53 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Mudhammam - December 29, 2014 at 2:54 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Esquilax - December 29, 2014 at 5:25 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Mudhammam - December 27, 2014 at 4:00 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Anomalocaris - December 27, 2014 at 4:11 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Mudhammam - December 27, 2014 at 4:18 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Anomalocaris - December 27, 2014 at 4:22 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Mudhammam - December 27, 2014 at 4:28 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Anomalocaris - December 27, 2014 at 4:56 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Mudhammam - December 27, 2014 at 9:43 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Anomalocaris - December 28, 2014 at 12:20 am
RE: If Only The Romans - by Mudhammam - December 28, 2014 at 3:00 am
RE: If Only The Romans - by Esquilax - December 25, 2014 at 2:55 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 25, 2014 at 3:29 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Anomalocaris - December 25, 2014 at 3:08 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by ManMachine - December 26, 2014 at 8:25 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by vorlon13 - December 25, 2014 at 2:02 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Anomalocaris - December 25, 2014 at 2:07 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by vorlon13 - December 25, 2014 at 2:13 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Wyrd of Gawd - December 29, 2014 at 3:51 am
RE: If Only The Romans - by dyresand - December 29, 2014 at 12:27 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by dyresand - December 25, 2014 at 7:24 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by abaris - December 25, 2014 at 7:30 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by dyresand - December 25, 2014 at 7:39 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Zen Badger - December 25, 2014 at 7:34 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by abaris - December 25, 2014 at 7:43 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Zen Badger - December 25, 2014 at 7:52 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Elskidor - December 25, 2014 at 7:50 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 26, 2014 at 1:23 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by abaris - December 26, 2014 at 1:37 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Anomalocaris - December 26, 2014 at 7:05 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 26, 2014 at 2:12 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 26, 2014 at 2:08 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by abaris - December 26, 2014 at 2:11 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lemonvariable72 - December 26, 2014 at 7:35 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 26, 2014 at 8:16 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Anomalocaris - December 26, 2014 at 7:45 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 26, 2014 at 7:54 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 26, 2014 at 8:15 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 26, 2014 at 8:26 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 26, 2014 at 9:02 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Anomalocaris - December 26, 2014 at 9:06 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 26, 2014 at 9:16 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 26, 2014 at 8:45 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Elskidor - December 26, 2014 at 9:19 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 26, 2014 at 9:33 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Anomalocaris - December 27, 2014 at 2:21 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 27, 2014 at 2:45 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Anomalocaris - December 27, 2014 at 3:00 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 27, 2014 at 3:22 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 26, 2014 at 10:47 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 26, 2014 at 11:09 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Elskidor - December 27, 2014 at 12:32 am
RE: If Only The Romans - by Mudhammam - December 27, 2014 at 1:25 am
RE: If Only The Romans - by Anomalocaris - December 27, 2014 at 2:32 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by ManMachine - December 27, 2014 at 10:02 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 27, 2014 at 10:45 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Mudhammam - December 27, 2014 at 10:55 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 28, 2014 at 1:46 am
RE: If Only The Romans - by dyresand - December 27, 2014 at 10:56 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Anomalocaris - December 27, 2014 at 3:36 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 27, 2014 at 4:48 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by vorlon13 - December 29, 2014 at 1:51 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 29, 2014 at 7:04 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by dyresand - December 29, 2014 at 9:18 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 29, 2014 at 10:21 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 30, 2014 at 6:16 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by vorlon13 - December 30, 2014 at 6:52 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 30, 2014 at 6:59 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by dyresand - December 30, 2014 at 7:52 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by The Grand Nudger - December 30, 2014 at 6:59 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by The Grand Nudger - December 30, 2014 at 8:57 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 30, 2014 at 11:42 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by dyresand - December 31, 2014 at 12:17 am
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 31, 2014 at 12:59 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 31, 2014 at 1:11 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 31, 2014 at 1:37 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Tonus - December 31, 2014 at 1:55 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 31, 2014 at 12:28 am
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 31, 2014 at 1:03 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Thumpalumpacus - December 31, 2014 at 2:05 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Tonus - December 31, 2014 at 6:47 am
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 30, 2014 at 9:30 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by The Grand Nudger - December 31, 2014 at 10:05 am
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 31, 2014 at 1:01 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 31, 2014 at 1:09 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 31, 2014 at 1:09 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 31, 2014 at 1:12 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 31, 2014 at 1:45 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 31, 2014 at 4:05 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - December 31, 2014 at 1:55 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by The Grand Nudger - December 31, 2014 at 8:40 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - December 31, 2014 at 11:50 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by The Grand Nudger - January 1, 2015 at 12:00 am
RE: If Only The Romans - by Lek - January 1, 2015 at 2:08 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by The Grand Nudger - January 1, 2015 at 2:33 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Minimalist - January 1, 2015 at 2:42 pm
RE: If Only The Romans - by Mudhammam - January 2, 2015 at 2:15 am

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