If Only The Romans

[Thumpalumpacus]

And you know this how? In order to judge, you'd need to know everything they've done vs everything they've admitted, and then make a direct comparison with us using the same data fields.

The debate isn't who's better: us or them? It's what is a better ideal to strive for.

Oh, I know that. I'm only addressing that point in order to point out that bald claims are, well, bald.

I certainly agree with you, as I've argued consistently throughout this thread, that we ought not take China as any example of how we ought to treat religious folk here. I disagree profoundly that our government ought to be that intrusive. Even taking into account Chuck's and Min's points about Chinese history -- and they're very pertinent -- their own point about the fallacy of us imposing our own values on the Chinese cuts both ways: advocating the importation of Chinese values into our own milieu is equally fallacious, for the exact same reason -- it wouldn't work in our American sociocultural setting.