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i need some debate help..
#6
RE: i need some debate help..
(August 2, 2010 at 8:29 pm)ShrinkingPinecone Wrote: this is basically the cosmological argument and i told my evangelical friend that energy is infinite so it couldnt have been created and he wants proof that matter/energy are "eternal" can anyone help?

(P.S. sorry i havent been on lately, bout to start school and i need to finish AP summer assignments.)

It's the same nonsense that's been presented against evolution and science just repackaged in a moderately more intelligent manner (until about 2/3s the way through the video, but after 6 minutes, I had to stop watching because of all the BS.)

It should be easy. He jumps to huge conclusions based on simple analogies with no real evident backing.
We don't know what came before the universe nor the process prior to the universe that led to this point in time, though we have loads and loads and loads of information about everything from the first few fractions of a fraction of a moment onward with a fair amount of accuracy given the current data we've gathered and processed.

For starters, he begins by stating that either everything came from nothing or something always existed and created everything that has existed which is itself a fallacy that christians use because those aren't necessarily the only options. The universe as we understand it certainly began at the moment of the 'big bang' and the universe will end in the manner as we understand it in the sense that eventually all the stars will flicker out, the non-black holes in the universe will fade as protons and matter decays into energy and degenerate forms of matter, the black holes will eventually evaporate into the materials that formed it thanks to hawking radiation (which will then decay into degenerate matter and energy), and after that, there really isn't any way to know what will happen, but the time-space vacuum will continue for untold eons. There are quantum-based theories as to what'll happen at this point, possibily a big crunch, the big rip, another big bang, or something else. Either way, no one really knows what happened before the big bang or what'll happen during the dark era when there's almost nothing we know left and quantum mechanics rules the universe.
Either way, this is not proof of anything in the bible or whether matter is "eternal" or had to be "created" in any sense. It's a conclusion with no evidence to support it.

Every mention of his of a created being necessary for anything follows the above logic. He's jumping to conclusions with no evidence to support it.

I should also make an important mention that he mentions that god is omnipotent, immaterial, and omnipresent to help him support his theory when the bible clearly contradicts him by having god intervene on the lives of countless millions of victims over the course of that intellectual sand trap.

Further, he fails to provide any actual evidence of matter, time, or space being anything. A logical arguement is not evidence that time, space, and matter is not eternal. No one ever argued that these things are or ever were eternal or finite. This is because such arguements would imply knowledge that human beings currently lack.

He states that time, matter, and space are finite - which physics I believe has proven true - is certainly a valid statement. Later, though, he assumes that because these things are true, that they must have been created, which is wrong because the fact doesn't lead to the conclusion.

You can seriously see the gaps in logic and facts as I think the author's mind is doing to skip over the very obvious gaps in reason.
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Messages In This Thread
i need some debate help.. - by ShrinkingPinecone - August 2, 2010 at 8:29 pm
RE: i need some debate help.. - by Autumnlicious - August 2, 2010 at 8:49 pm
RE: i need some debate help.. - by Minimalist - August 2, 2010 at 9:08 pm
RE: i need some debate help.. - by Autumnlicious - August 2, 2010 at 9:32 pm
RE: i need some debate help.. - by Minimalist - August 2, 2010 at 9:35 pm
RE: i need some debate help.. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 3, 2010 at 10:56 pm
RE: i need some debate help.. - by Eilonnwy - August 5, 2010 at 12:41 pm
RE: i need some debate help.. - by fr0d0 - August 7, 2010 at 6:28 am
RE: i need some debate help.. - by Edwardo Piet - August 8, 2010 at 10:45 am
RE: i need some debate help.. - by ShrinkingPinecone - August 5, 2010 at 7:06 pm
RE: i need some debate help.. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 5, 2010 at 7:13 pm
RE: i need some debate help.. - by solja247 - August 7, 2010 at 2:24 am
RE: i need some debate help.. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 7, 2010 at 3:21 am
RE: i need some debate help.. - by solja247 - August 7, 2010 at 4:27 am
RE: i need some debate help.. - by Darwinian - August 7, 2010 at 4:29 am
RE: i need some debate help.. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - August 7, 2010 at 2:52 pm
RE: i need some debate help.. - by solja247 - August 7, 2010 at 4:53 am
RE: i need some debate help.. - by Darwinian - August 7, 2010 at 6:42 am
RE: i need some debate help.. - by LEDO - August 7, 2010 at 6:08 am
RE: i need some debate help.. - by solja247 - August 7, 2010 at 7:11 am
RE: i need some debate help.. - by Tiberius - August 7, 2010 at 7:34 am
RE: i need some debate help.. - by fr0d0 - August 7, 2010 at 8:04 am
RE: i need some debate help.. - by solja247 - August 7, 2010 at 8:40 am
RE: i need some debate help.. - by ABierman1986 - August 8, 2010 at 3:06 am
RE: i need some debate help.. - by Tiberius - August 8, 2010 at 9:12 am
RE: i need some debate help.. - by Quest of knowledge - August 8, 2010 at 2:38 am

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