Moral superiority: Seculars vs Religious

[Creed of Heresy]

...what our resident theists have to say on the matter. I find myself wishing there were more around here for these kinds of conversations

Perhaps you should also try a christian forum, non?

Trust me, I have.

I was banned immediately after making the post on a couple. The reason given? "Inflammatory comments" for one. The other? No reason given whatsoever. Just a ban. That's it.

I posted this almost verbatim. My post was deleted, and I was permanently banned without warning.

And they have the fucking gall to bitch and piss and whine about getting banned here after a dozen warnings and rather fair, tolerant rules...

I have my own philosophy regarding this. I live in a quite religious country, though I'm hoping in time it will become more secular.

All / most religions have the rather unusual attribute that they preach about great values that no one lives up to. For instance, within a church it is so 'fashionable' to talk about honesty, love, giving, etc. that it is almost a demand: it is how GOD demands you to be, therefore you have no choice but to ACT as if you are like that, so as to be accepted by the group. Many religious people, I believe, don't even realize that they're mere hypocrites. Besides, a lot of standards that are impossible for men to live up to turn into low self-esteem (they feel guilty before God), hating those who do not try to live up to those standards (e.g. atheists), and cause a twist of the priorities on moral issues: e.g. it is more important to go to the Church frequently and gaze upon the pictures of the saints than to actually be altruistic; it is more important to pray to God and show that you 'love' him by whatever rituals you do than being fair. Also, the religious leaders, being very much trusted by their followers are more likely to manipulate them and to use their money to fulfill their own dreams: expensive cars, big houses, churches covered in gold, etc. A country led by such religious leaders becomes poor, there remains less money for institutions (health, education, etc.) and backed up by a lot of people living in poverty, this leads to crimes. In countries where the Church / the religion can freely demand money from the state (from the people's taxes) and where the priests are being paid from state taxes, I'd say that religion practices a form of 'legal' corruption.

Secularists, on the other hand, do not have that many rules and impossible standards to live up to. No one asks or demands people to fake love or altruism or whatever. No church has such a great power, so the country can become prosperous and people can live decent lives and receive proper education. They do not feel forced to live in a certain way, so they don't live in frustrations and do not hate the 'others' for being different / freer.

Excellent points, and I have no reason to doubt that any of what you said is true. Hypocrisy runs absurdly rampant amongst the religious, and few practice what they preach. Those that do, I appreciate their participation in society, but they're so genuinely few that the moment I hear someone "holds to Christian values" I tune the rest of what they have to say out because it's a pointless exercise in frustration and annoyance.

Personal liberty is remarkably enabling for good social moral values. This shouldn't be surprising; most people are inherently good. It's the input from the closest parts of the world around them that determines whether or not they stay good, or if they become twisted and spiteful. Or, some medium in between.

At least, that's the conclusion I've come to draw from it.